To say - public sector workers pay tax

[woundedplacerias]

Sorry, that's it. It's a taat and I'm tired and have had but ffs - public sector workers and tax payers are not two discrete groups.

As a cop, I can assure you that I pay my fair share in tax.

The best perk we get is free McDonald's. The end.

My NHS worker husband pays 14% into his pension, certainly not "gold plated", if he's lucky he will get it when he's 68 but I suspect the goal posts will have moved again by then. I can't remember the last time he got a pay rise I just know in real terms he's earning less now than he was 8 years ago.
And oh yes he certainly pays enough tax!

I've worked in public sector, private sector and charities.

Reality is that there is a lot of polarising "us and them" stuff goes on which is not helpful, to say the least.

However, to those PPs saying that public sector pensions are not gold-plated, you need to know that to get equivalent benefits from a private pension would mean your contributions would have to be massively higher. A huge number of people in the private sector will be worse off than ex-teachers, nurses, etc due to the fact that they simply cannot afford to pay what they need to into their pensions.

That doesn't mean that they should resent their public sector colleagues better benefits though. But it is reality.

Blue turtle because I don't expect to be paid 15k for what I do, which is when tax kicks in at a decent rate, and even though I'm public sector we can't ignore the tax system just because.

I agree it's daft what some people think. I think the public sector has seen huge changes in recent years. Not just in terms of pay and crappier pensions but increased workloads and tighter budgets all round, staff not replaced etc make jobs a lot more stressful than they once we're
It makes me laugh that when I was in the forces people not only thought I didn't pay tax but also that my family and I lived in free housing with no bills!!
The forces pension is non contributory but then the forces are the only public sector workers with no right to strike and are the ones often called upon to cover the ones that exercise their right to do so. Don't know if that equates to fair but possibly evens it out a bit.

Completely agree and also: if you think I have a job perk in my badly paid public sector role for which I am massively undervalued, and you'd like it for yourself, then join a fucking union and advocate for it. Don't whinge to me about my slightly-less-shit-than-yours pension, or reasonable number of holiday days.

Making my job perks shite to go with my pay won't magically make yours better, it'll be a race to the bottom instead.

The police contribute to their pension and have no right to strike.

There's pros and cons with public vs private sector.

Public sector do have rights, pension etc but don't get as much pay as a private counterpart, no bonuses etc.

I am public sector, my brother is private. He is better off than me now as he gets better pay and bonuses however I will get a better pension which I pay a lot into. Although the pension I thought I would get when I joined isn't actually the pension I will get when I retire. My dh is a police officer. On paper he earns more than me but due to paying 14.5% of his wages into his pension he actually takes home less than I do.

I moved to the public sector from the private sector two years ago. There IS a lot of whining about nothing to be honest. I get a good wage for what I do, my employer is very conscious of my work/life balance - not because the public sector is cushy but because there's always the option for me to take six months sick leave on full pay due to stress which would have been unheard of in the private sector. I pay something like 7% of my wages into my pension each month, but my employer then pays more than double that on my behalf. I should, in theory, be able to retire in my early 60s with a reasonable pension.

I think I have it pretty good and that makes it a lot easier to ignore the "I pay your wages" gubbins.

It depends where abouts you work in the public sector as to what deal you get. I work in local government so I get paid considerably less than my private sector counterparters, but I get flexi time and decent pension and holiday.

After 15 years in the public sector, DP has just gone to the 'dark side' - he contributes more in pension abd gets 5 days less holiday a year, but earns £15k more, does 3 further hours a week, company car, free tea, coffee, milk at work, big paid for Christmas do, nice dinners/lunches on the company and a generous bonus. He also doesn't have to listen to the public moaning at him constantly, a cold office, constant cuts & reorganisations, having to do all the admin himself and attend committee meetings where elected councillors throw insults around at officers. He loves it.

In theory then Batman all teachers' bosses should be very considerate of their workload and ensure they don't put too much pressure on them in case they go off for six months - but that isn't what happens, is it? And being off for 6 months with stress would put you in the fast track for competency measures when you came back.
I'm not telling my pupils that the police get free McDonald's or they'd all sign up!

vivienne omg the military pay no contribution to their pension! I did not know that! Does it apply to military who aren't frontline?

I am retiring shortly, the reaction is "Oh you will be okay you will have a civil service Pension"
I am a Junior management grade and for nearly 23 years service my pension will pay me less than my state one will.
Whilst I am grateful for anything I get, its not the vast sums most people imagine it is.

I am regularly harangued at by a man who informs me "I am a government servant and he pays my wages etc etc" he is in receipt of every state benefit going that he can claim.

The military pay no pension contributions?!
The police get free McDonalds?!

I've worked in both the private and public sector.

There are a lot of misconceptions about the public sector. The gold plated pensions thing, I'd be surprised if anyone who isn't already nearing retirement age has one of those. Also, a lot of public sector workers are on temporary contacts, so don't have access to a public sector pension at all. The media don't mention that when they are bashing the public sector. Also, whilst the admin type jobs probably pay fairly similar salaries to the private sector, the more technical jobs pay very poorly in comparison to the private sector. So when people took those jobs on fifteen years ago on the understanding that they were going to access a worse salary but a better pension than their private sector equivalents, then after paying in for ten or fifteen years they are told 'no actually, the goalposts have moved' it is totally unfair because those people can't go back in time and choose the other option instead. And the other thing that I know happens with regard to public sector pensions is that they will pay eg IT staff a very very low basic salary, but will top it up with various 'allowances'. So you might be paid eg £3k per month but only £1500 of that is 'basic salary' therefore only £1500 of it is taken into account when calculating your salary for your eventual 'average salary' pension.

What IS much better about the public sector in my experience is that more people can access eg flexi time, whereas in the private sector I've found that only senior staff are allowed perks like that.

There needs to be a better permeability between public and private sectors. Both have their own benefits and problems, but it seems people get trapped into one and that's it.

Public sector workers pay tax and anyone who says otherwise is a muppet.

But. It's private business and enterprise which generates the wealth and money that then feeds the public sector which then pays the wages which are taxed. You can't have a public sector without a strong and efficient private sector. The TUC, some public sector workers and Robert Preston etc don't seem to get that. There has to be money coming into the system - recycling tax money through public sector and public sector tax isn't enough. The two are symbiotic, and as a high-earning private sector worker, living in a household that pays nearly £200k per year in tax (not a typo, £200k) I find it fucking GALLING when all you read about is "fat cats" and scumbags and Phillip fucking Green. High earners in private sector are paying INTO the public sector and also tend not to take much out. Public sector workers are paid out of the system - and yes they pay back in, but they don't tend to generate more wealth to put into the system IYSWIM.

Also - I don't resent the tax we pay btw. We earn a fuck load compared to the vast majority, and we should pay a fuck load in tax. That's fair enough. I have no time for tax avoidance.

YANBU.

we also work just as hard as those in the private sector ime but there is a perception that we don't

But. It's private business and enterprise which generates the wealth and money that then feeds the public sector

Not totally true actually!!! I work in an entrepreneurial team with the public sector, helping my organisation make a lot of money which means we haven't had to cut services like a lot of public sector organisations.

Police getting free Mcdonalds must be a local arrangement - we were banned from accepting things in my force, including coffee or tea from places like McDonalds. Locally arranged discounts were acceptable to management.

The military, AFAIK, pay no contributions no matter their rank or role. From the new joiner to the people at the top. It's just the way it is.

icy you make a really good point, because I agree that both are reliant on each other, but for different reasons. The private sector wouldn't have workers if the public sector workers hadn't educated them in the first place, and taken care of their health etc (with the exception of the super wealthy who could fund these things themselves if needed) And the public sector wouldn't be able to do those things without the private sector generating the wealth to pay into the system.

I'm in Australia Vivienne. It's at least a state-wide thing here (but I think it's nation-wide).

Icy what a refreshing post. What we need is to find a way to discuss issues like this without attacking individual groups. It really shouldn't be private sector good public sector bad or vice versa hardworking families versus benefit scroungers or any other combination going, because that sort of tribalism just gets in the way of identifying and tackling the real problem.

throwingpebbles some public sector roles are entrepreneurial - but the vast majority aren't and should not be. Nurses, teachers, social workers need to focus on nursing teaching and social working - not making money.

The two sectors are 2 sides of the same coin and that's what EVERYONE needs to grasp, and work together - jump between sectors and learn all the best practice and get more efficient.

Both have perks the other doesn't - seems to me that employer pension contributions and work/life flexibility are better for public sector vs more pay and often more efficient and pleasant workplaces in the private sector. I'm talking generalities. But if senior decision makers have done stints in both sectors then there could be cost-neutral small wins and best practice that could be nicked from the other.

Instead we have this rhetoric of "fat cat private sector tax dodgers who get paid far too much and don't give a fuck about anything but money" and "lazy inefficient squandering public sector who are all on full pay long term sick and do a shit job" - neither are helpful!!

Oh I agree entirely, most shouldn't be! But it is a misconception that "tax payers" find everything we do.

And totally agree, we are mutually dependent, we shouldn't be sniping at each other without recognition of that dependency

And yes, I agree there needs to be more movement between the the sectors. I started in private sector and moved across, and have implemented lots of (good) things from private sector in my team.
Equally I think the private sector has a lot to learn from us (such as how even very senior professional jobs can be done (perhaps even are better done) flexibly if you have committed and organised staff)

I disagree with those who are saying that public sector pensions are not "gold plated".

Most public sector pensions are defined benefit schemes, which are guaranteed, index linked and also provide a widow's pension. On the other hand, most private sector pensions are defined contribution schemes, which are a completely different product.

With a defined benefit, you have a guaranteed pension for life, which rises with inflation. With defined contribution, you try to build up a pension pot, with which you can either buy an annuity or take a drawdown income from. To achieve a pension equivalent to a public sector pension, one would need a vast pension pot, which is totally out of reach of the average worker.