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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think an NHS 111 operater shouldn't be saying this?

64 replies

EndoTheWorld · 01/12/2016 13:31

Recently I called 111 due to severe endometriosis pain (extreme pain caused during period). The reason I called was because the pain seemed worse than usual - barely able to move, or think, just a world of agony. The usual dizziness, vomiting, shaking and fever was significantly worse and it is this that made me call - I thought something had gone very wrong and I might have an infection or something that was causing me to go into shock.

The woman on the phone was intitially sympathetic - I was groaning and panting my way through the pain as if in labour and was struggling to speak because the effort hurt even more. She said that she had endo too and understood. She then proceeded to lecture me about "lifestyle", telling me I neede to cut out red meat. I explained I was veggie, almost vegan (cheese is my downfall) so she started saying I should be entirely vegan. I also had to give details of my exercise regime. Of course, this kind of supplementary information/advice can be helpful in the right context but I don't think this was the right context!

Worse, because she inititally seemed sympathetic I ended up expressing, in a garbled way, my fear of this impacting my ability to hold down a job (not currently in paid employment). She told me she had never lost a job due to endo, in over 30 years. Well no, I suspect the NHS had decent sickness policies to cover this sort of thing! Bit different if you work in the local supermarket.

I repeated several times that the reason Id called was because the associated fever was so much worse and I thought maybe something else was wrong (I was concerned that I'd just be found dead a few days later, if it hadn't been the middle of the night I'd have called some people and got them to check up on me). It's so confusing because if I didn't have endo I'd have called an ambulance with those extreme symptoms, so it's hard to know if one should when the symptoms are significantly worse/different. She reluctantly offered a phone call from the out of hours GP (who called several hours later), but continued lecturing me about lifestyle - as if I can make this extreme pain disappear (and my lifestyle isn't bad, all her assumptions were wrong but she just got to a really nitpicking stage as if determined to blame my pain on me).

AIBU to think that when someone is in so much pain they feel like they are dying, it is not an appropriate time to lecture them about lifestyle? And even more shocking from someone who calims to suffer from it herself? I'm guessing she's the type who barely noticed they were giving birth and was running marathons the next day...

OP posts:
Prawnofthepatriarchy · 01/12/2016 17:52

I have never found 111 anything but totally and utterly useless. All they have ever said to me, after lots of delays, is to see my GP or call an ambulance, both of which I could have done without their advice.

Now I just use my own skill and judgment.

OvariesForgotHerPassword · 01/12/2016 17:56

Please don't hesitate to call ambulance if it gets bad enough. My endo was mistaken for appendicitis by doctors at first which shows how easy it is to mistake the pain, don't take the risk!

LemonScentedStickyBat · 01/12/2016 18:01

I hope you can find the strength to complain, OP. Ten years on and I'm still smarting from an NHS Direct nurse telling me "you're not very good with babies, are you" when I (stupidly) rang them when ds was a day old and I didn't think he'd had enough wet nappies. Apparently she "didn't mean to cause offence". Don't say offensive things then...

OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet · 01/12/2016 18:05

I have severe endo, many surgeries, frequently in and out of hospital and understand exactly how you feel. If you'd like to PM me I have some ideas of how you can deal with this norm effectively, and make it safer for you. I know how awful and nasty this disease is, and just how difficult it is getting other people to understand. Healing hugs for you Flowers

PonkAlert · 01/12/2016 18:22

When I was 19 I went to give blood but couldn't because I was anaemic. The GP said that I would never be able to have children and that being vegetarian is crazy. Being 19 I was used to being lectured by older authority figures and I didn't care about having/not having children but thinking back it was completely inappropriate.

BadKnee · 01/12/2016 18:38

The comment about men is sexist and unnecessary.

Men are actually less likely to go the doctor and get treated than women.

By all means discuss the call handler's conduct and make a complaint if you wish to but you have no evidence to suggest that a man would have been taken to hospital in those circumstances - and the comment devalues your post.

BadKnee · 01/12/2016 18:44

Let me guess male gp? Graphista - no, the point was it was a female call handler who was dismissive and unprofessional because she shared a diagnosis and assumed a OP's case was similar.

I get that when "fellow" migraine sufferers say - "Oh yes I'm the same" - no you are not!!! I am in bed, in agony, in the dark, vomiting for three days every two weeks - and have been for 35 years! It is not a "bit of a headache"!

Soubriquet · 01/12/2016 18:45

Actually BadKnee you're wrong

A man turns up at A&E will be seen quicker and will have appendicitis and like the ruled out first before looking at other causes

A woman turns up at A&E and they get seen with a longer wait, and they have gynae problems looked at and ruled out first before investigating something else

RubbishMantra · 01/12/2016 18:52

My (now deceased) DH battled schizophrenia all his adult life. I could see he was spiralling into a psychotic episode. I rang the MH team on a Friday, who spoke to me, DH, and when he handed the phone back to me I was told, "Oh, these things usually work themselves out." Next day he committed suicide.

Listen to your gut feeling, I wish I had done. But I listened to the professionals, and they're, like, professionals, y'know?

Don't be fobbed off OP, you know your own body better than anyone else. And I'm sorry you had such a shit experience.

toptoe · 01/12/2016 18:55

This is why they have a script to follow. It's dangerous for them to go off it. Every time I've called the response is computer led after me answering precise questions that narrow it down to the necessary outcome. This operator seems to have gone off script massively and made her own decision as to what to do. Very dangerous.

Graphista · 01/12/2016 18:56

I admit should have been clearer but 'male gp?' Was regarding the gp's dismissal of the pain as being 'not that bad' and not prescribing Adequate pain relief.

Men are known to not attend as often but when they do they are taken seriously, their reproductive system is not the FIRST thing considered, they're not told to basically just 'suck it up' because 'all men get pain due to the ability to produce sperm' can you imagine?

My sister has endo and has had appalling treatment and attitude from mostly male gp's.

I also have a gynae condition which the symptoms were dismissed if not totally ignored, therefore untreated resulting in many years of painful distressing symptoms and the loss of 3 babies.

Another thread I'm on is full of accounts of women having to suffer extreme symptoms due to refusal to remove contraceptive devices. Yet the recent trials of male contraception were stopped due to side effects:

"But the trial of the drug has already been halted – because just 20 of the men (out of 320, don’t forget) found the side effects of the injection intolerable and it was decided that more research needed to be done to try and counteract them. Those side effects included depression, muscle pain, mood swings, acne and changes to the libido.

Do any of those side effects sound familiar? Oh yes, they’re the minor side effects of the combined pill, used by 48 per cent of women aged 16 to 19, 64 per cent of women aged between 20 and 24 and a majority (55 per cent) of those aged between 25 and 29."

Graphista · 01/12/2016 18:58

Rubbishmantra I'm so sorry that happened. Flowers

I have mental illness too and know the mentally ill are frequently dismissed too.

PeteSwotatoes · 01/12/2016 19:09

I agree that jibes at men are unfair. They are notoriously unwilling to take time off work (or unable, if in routine/manual jobs), leave things too late so suffer worse health outcomes, and are more stoical about pain/people presume they can cope so don't get adequate pain relief.

Both sexes experience barriers to healthcare and it's not fair to be dismissive.

EndoTheWorld · 01/12/2016 19:29

Pete I was barely able to move, delirious with pain, sweating yet feeling freezing - I looked absolutely fucked and could barely speak. You think if I was at work I could carry on working? And that no-one would notice?

I know men put off milder symptoms, I lost a memeber of my family that way, and always encourage men to get stuff checked out. But when you're in the state I was in you simply cannot hide it. Why can't you understand how bad the pain is?

Perhaps I should mention I've had dengue fever ("breakbone fever"), pretty painful but not as bad as what I now go through every month.

Also had very little pain relief after being operated on - again, didn't seem very painful in comparison.

OP posts:
EndoTheWorld · 01/12/2016 19:32

Oh, and men are not more stoical about pain. That is a myth - women actually are the most stoical on average.

Going to the doctors to actaully sort the problem out is where men start pretending nothing's wrong.

OP posts:
Prawnofthepatriarchy · 01/12/2016 19:33

I agree with Pete. I don't think men do get better treatment. One of the reasons men's life expectancy is lower is that many men don't seek medical advice until they are very ill. My BIL died of bowel cancer because he didn't want to make a fuss, and found his symptoms embarrassing. That's very common.

As for male doctors, I've had wide experience of doctors both with my chronic health problems and those of my family and I haven't found women doctors more caring or better in any other way. A good doctor is a good doctor, regardless of sex.

What I have noticed is that if you really want your gynae problems brushed aside, consult a woman doctor whose reproductive system works like clockwork. Some seem to think that anyone who complains of endo pain is exaggerating because they don't have menstrual difficulties. A woman doctor had my friend in tears when she suggested that her problems were the result of being generally disorganized and if only she pulled herself together she'd be fine. Grrrh!

PeteSwotatoes · 01/12/2016 19:35

Doctors' perceptions of men are such that they are not offered adequate pain relief.

I am not denying your pain, I am asking that you not deny others' in defense of your own.

EndoTheWorld · 01/12/2016 19:36

And thinking about - barriers to healthcare - wtf? Hmm
Refusing to go to the GP when you're ill is hardly a barrier in the same way as going to the GP and getting ignored, is it?

OP posts:
EndoTheWorld · 01/12/2016 19:39

Pete you are just making stuff up. This has been studied. Men have their pain taken more seriously than women.

OP posts:
PeteSwotatoes · 01/12/2016 19:39

It's not a competition Hmm I posted a supportive comment upthread so I don't know why I'm getting jumped on.

PeteSwotatoes · 01/12/2016 19:40

There are all kinds of "studies". I study medicine so this has come up.

EndoTheWorld · 01/12/2016 19:40

Honestly, I went to the GP, saw every doctor there, over about 3 years. All refused pain relief or to refer me on - male and female. Eventually the practice nurse referred me.

OP posts:
EndoTheWorld · 01/12/2016 19:42

It's not supportive Pete, when you go on about men being stoic, as if my pain wasnt that bad and I could have carried on. I could barely fucking move or speak - can you not se that is severe pain that shouldn't be ignored? A man would not be dismissed like that.

OP posts:
PeteSwotatoes · 01/12/2016 19:43

And that is horrendous, I'm sorry Flowers

PeteSwotatoes · 01/12/2016 19:44

That's not what "men being stoic" means. You can't make sweeping comments like "a man would not be dismissed" when men are frequently disadvantaged, just in different ways.

I get that you're angry about your treatment but I don't see why that warrants disparaging remarks about men.