AIBU to complain to school

[kandykane77]

DS is in year 1 and has been in the top phonics set since the start of the year. Teacher always very complimentary about him, even commented at parents evening 3 weeks ago that he's doing extremely well for a summer born boy. Yesterday he was moved into the bottom phonics set after performing poorly on an assessment last week. I don't understand how a kid's reading can deteriorate from top set to bottom set in a few weeks. Either a) he's been in the wrong group and struggling all term, which is not ok, or b) something went wrong with the assessment and he's been moved down to a group that's too easy for him, which is not ok or c) his reading has got dramatically worse in 3 weeks, which is worrying.
Having spoken to the teacher today she contradicted herself several times and I've got no clear answer. So I've drafted a letter to the headteacher. AIBU? Am I being "that mum"? Or would you want answers too? (Fwiw DS is very cross he's been given a "baby book" instead of the books he was rather enjoying.)

Oh for goodness sake, the op clearly is NOT being 'precious'. Moving from top to bottom does need more explanation!

Has the head replied?

Yes she emailed back this afternoon saying that she is confused by such a big drop and will investigate further. She asked me to pop in before pick up tomorrow so I'll let you know what she says.

trifleorbust my problem is that I've been told that he should be in the top set and the bottom set 3 weeks apart. The teacher contradicted herself in the same breath pretty much.

Not exactly the same breath. 3 weeks with an assessment in that time isn't the same breath, is it? I am not saying she wasn't wrong, just that it is not necessarily contradictory to act on information you get that gives you a more accurate picture of someone's needs. It doesn't make her incompetent. And this is exactly what I mean by people not accepting teachers' professional judgement - you will not be the only parent questioning everything the teacher decides Of course she needs evidence to support what she is saying when she probably hears from parents every day on this same issue.

No sorry my fault for not being clear. I meant she contradicted herself when I spoke to her after school.

I love the assumption that the teacher has cocked up

If the OP's been told that her DS will find it too easy but he's in that group because there's nowhere else to put him, then it isn't really an assumption that someone's cocked up. And the OP is absolutely right to query that.

Well done OP, sounds like you pitched it well.

Trifle, communicating effectively is a huge part of being a professional. That means explaining your professional judgements and listening too. I don't find it at all a professional position to huff and puff and say "well it's my professional opinion so just accept it". You will get much more respect as a professional if you are prepared to listen, double check, and reconsider your professional judgement if further evidence shows a different picture. In this case that might be re-check child's reading, and stick them into the second group if that's a better fit. Not insist they stay where they are for a term even if not really appropriate because that was your professional judgement and you won't re-evaluate until whenever you were going to anyway. Or it might be explaining your rationale in a way the parent can understand; doubtless there will be a very good one for a move that's so dispiriting to a child.

Colby, if my child moved 5 sets up and I'd also noticed a surge in their reading ability at home and they could easily read the new books, then I'd be delighted school were so quick to respond to changes. If they moved 5 sets up when I thought the original books were about the right level, came home with books they couldn't read instead, and were upset about it, I'd be in to see the teacher like a shot. I think most parents would. Similarly if they'd been struggling and then moved down 5 groups and could suddenly read the books and were happier, I'd breathe a sigh of relief. That's not the situation the OP describes though.

catkind: I never said people should just say that. Read the other posts, the point isn't quite as you have understood it here.

I'm very much getting the gist from several of your posts trifle that parents should just accept the teacher's professional judgement without question. I don't agree with that, so I'm pleased if that's not what you meant to say.

It's not at all what I am saying. I am saying that teachers are often in a position where they can't satisfy parents either way - if they use test scores to group students, the parents of the students who go down very often question the validity of testing; if they use their judgement, more parents question the validity of their judgement (and virtually every dissatisfied party will have a view that the teacher is unfair/incompetent, not just mistaken). So it becomes an impossible task. You can't make everyone happy all the time, which is what seems to be expected.

But, Catkind, I think it's fair to say I would appreciate more respect for my professional judgement from some parents. Then the relentless testing of students to justify decision-making (which many parents seem to find as frustrating as many teachers do) wouldn't be as necessary. Unfortunately the prevailing attitude does seems to be more 'Why should we accept your judgement', as I think you have ably demonstrated in your post Fair enough, in my view, feel free not to accept it, but it's not then appropriate for the same parents to complain about constant testing!

Can you ask her to read with him? And double check where he should be as he's finding the books too easy and frustrating.

It might be that other children are doing better then him now (quicker learners?), meaning he has to shift down the tables.

If he really isn't engaged I'd whisk him to the library to get books he will engage with or use reading owl on line. The most important thing is his enjoyment and enthusiasm about reading.

Teachers do sometimes get it wrong. We are all human. However you do need to be dipolomatic and polite when discussing. It's such a small issue and is easy to iron out if needed

Do you know if the assessment was a mock phonics screening test? It may be that this has shown a few gaps in his knowledge that the bottom group are currently teaching. For example, if the top group are teaching Phase 5 sounds but your DS has missed some Phase 3 sounds on the screening, it could be a case of the teacher needing to plug the gaps. I was Year 1 teacher last year and we moved children around quite a lot.

Id ask too.

It's a simple question - and if you word it correctly then it's simply a question rather than complaint.

My Ds did read write inc. he was brilliant at sounding out words with single phonemes from day 1. He was hopeless with sight words and hopeless with graphemes.

He remains that way now at 12. His spelling a nd reading is in bottom 5th centile. All because he could do 1 thing and assessment wasn't such a big thing back then.

Sounds like a bit of a shit show. I'd start teaching him yourself if you feel up for it. It's not that difficult - I did it and English is my second language. Not ideal but not impossible. My DD was well behind her peers at the beginning of reception, and was the youngest in her school but is now, in year 3, the best reader. Ask school which phonics method they use and get the material (jolly phonics has free resources on YouTube for example) and try and get the Julia Donaldson's Songbird Books from your local library or the book people.

Testing is not a good answer at all. Explaining is a good answer. The amount of record keeping that is required for ofsted etc you're effectively doing ongoing assessments anyway.
And listening to what parents have to say too. We do hear our kids read more than you do, and often they tell parents about things they won't say in school. Though it sounds like in this case the teacher was perfectly well aware the books were too easy.

This is what I am trying to say though, Catkind: no matter how much you listen to parents (and I do!) there are always parents who believe their judgement should override yours as the teacher. Unfortunately that cannot work as there are limited places in 'top' or 'support' groups and you can't always please everyone (nor should you - you should do what is best for the pupil wherever possible). Professional judgement is a tool the teacher has to try to make things fair and support all the children, but some parents refuse to accept it if it doesn't match their own expectations and judgement Testing is also a tool the teacher has, but some parents (like you, it seems) dispute the validity of testing. Others only dispute it when it shows their child to not be progressing. Others don't dispute the test but insist that the result shows that the child is being poorly taught. Etc.

The point I am making here is that an increasing number of parents seem to believe it is their role to decide on the group their child should be in, the reading level which is appropriate etc., but half of them complain about testing and the other half complain about subjective judgements. There really is no answer that suits everyone, so sometimes teachers have to draw a line under the debate and say 'This is what I am able to do and we will revisit it in X weeks.'

When I make a professional judgement though I have to have reasons for it and justify them to people. When my professional judgement contradicts the experience of a major stakeholder then for my own satisfaction too I need to get to the bottom of why. Those are the steps that seem to be missing in this case. I think trifle you may be thinking of cases with your own pupils where the situation is rather different. At least I'm assuming you wouldn't move a pupil down several reading levels and give the parent a confused non-explanation under the label of professional judgement.

And yes, after the discussion, sometimes it does come down to "sorry, I can't change my report". And sometimes things need changing to take new information into account. You seemed to be encouraging the parent here not to enter the discussion in the first place.

Catkind, that is exactly what I am saying. Of course you provide a reason for it. Usually the reason is that you have assessed them and you have noted X, Y or Z. It is then that the debate tends to begin over how you assessed, when you assessed, why you assessed etc. And in the nicest possible way, you can't make all the 'stakeholders' (horrible phrase!) happy when a) they tend to disagree b) they are naturally biased towards their own children c) there are limited resources available and d) you may ultimately disagree with them for very good reason. All you have left at that point is your own judgement and willingness to revisit the issue at a later date.

And no, I wouldn't give a confused explanation. What's happened here is that you have responded to my post at the end of a sub-discussion that moved outside the strict context of the thread (the OP's child) and missed the new context, which was a more general observation about the teacher's discretion and judgement versus strict reliance on testing.

^Do you know if the assessment was a mock phonics screening test? It may be that this has shown a few gaps in his knowledge that the bottom group are currently teaching. For example, if the top group are teaching Phase 5 sounds but your DS has missed some Phase 3 sounds on the screening, it could be a case of the teacher needing to plug the gaps. I was Year 1 teacher last year and we moved children around quite a lot.^
Smithslet80 - this makes the most sense I've heard so far! This would fit with everything except putting him in the bottom set because there's nowhere else to go. But it would explain why he was apparently doing fine then when tested didn't do as well. Also why the record said great blending in the test, because he could have for example done good phase 5 blending but had gaps in phase 3 knowledge. Perhaps this is the case and the teacher miscommunicated. I do think though he shouldn't be in any set just because there's nowhere else to put him.

And no, I am not trying to encourage parents to not enter into discussion. I am trying to say that there should be more respect for the fact that the parents are not the professionals, so not an immediate assumption that the teacher is an incompetent, lazy fool whenever the judgement of the teacher doesn't match the judgement of the parent, firstly, and secondly, a willingness to wait and see. A teacher might very reasonably be asked why they have done something (that's fine) but it becomes a problem when every parent thinks they are better qualified to make teaching judgements than the person whose job it is to make them. A bit more trust and respect is definitely required.

Apologies then, I thought you were talking about OP still.