AIBU to be horrified by the Stolen Children of England

[LivingOnTheDancefloor]

I just watched a French documentary called "England's stolen children" and can't believe this is happening in England. Horrifying, scary, unbelievable, it is like a horror movie...

Basically, social services are taking babies from their parents based on suspicion that abuse might happen in the future, except that the decision is made based on ridiculous things.
A lady had her three children taken from her, including a breastfed baby because she went to the ER for a child's broken ankle and they judged that he must have been beaten by his parents (only based on the ankle). X years later the parents manage to prove the fracture was due to scorbut. And they found out the initial report from the ER says "no sign of fracture".
The judge admitted they shouldn't have taken the children and the parents were innocents. But the children were given to adoption so the parents will never see them again.
That is just one of the stories.
Some women are told while pregnant that their newborn will be taken as soon as he arrives (and thzney do it).
The documentary says it is due to the facts that counties have to reach a number of children given to adoption so they target poor/uneducated parents and find any reason to take their children.
And as fostering costs money to the state they prefer adoption.

AIBU to ask if you heard about it here in the UK? And if yes, what do you think? Could it be true or are they exagerating?

I am really shaken.

www.google.fr/amp/s/researchingreform.net/2016/11/14/englands-stolen-children-controversial-new-documentary-on-forced-adoption/amp/?client=safari

Sorry, no idea how to post links, and I am on my phone

I wasn't suggesting Henmings had any credibility left.

Where IS Spero? I haven't seen her for ages. A year maybe?

I know someone who had to go to court after her infant was taken into foster care, and she was only allowed supervised visits. This went on for a very long time, until they were able to prove that the child had a congenital defect, and not an injury related to abuse/neglect. Scary.

Perhaps if we say her name three times, Manumission? Heming has been referenced enough on this thread am surprised he has not appeared.

Right back at you barbadosgirl

Omg, I've just read the programme description.

I guess this is what the 'ex businessman' and 'the millionaire' do when they're finally discredited here - go elsewhere and peddle the same shite.

Barbadosgirl there was no abuse ever mentioned. It was the 'possibility of future harm'. I won't go further into it. None of the children has suffered any abuse though much as I hear you on the fact people may not admit that sort of thing, abuse was never a part of the case.

Hemming, a sitting MP at the time, managed to get banned from MN, if you want to take that into account when you decide how much faith to have in his words.

Oh good lord. Don't apparate like that at this time of night. I startle easily

*HAD suffered abuse, that should say.

I know someone who nearly lost her second child after various SW had made reports on her ability to parent but the judge threw it out of court.

So yes it does happen.

Anyway I dont know why the French are getting so upset about the failures of SS in the UK. Maybe they should look a bit closer to home and worry about how autistic children and their parents are treated in France eh?

"I know someone who nearly lost her second child after various SW had made reports on her ability to parent but the judge threw it out of court.

So yes it does happen."

Haven't you just proved the system works?

Memoires If MH is an issue they will support and advise and help the sufferer to get the treatment they need.

I take it you're not aware just how underfunded and overstretched mental health services are. Getting indepth, longterm therapy to get to the core of someone's issues is virtually impossible. (I would hope there are concessions made if one is an expectant mother or known to SS etc, but I don't know.) One has to be precisely the right kind and degree of mentally ill to qualify for services, especially therapy (can't be considered too ill/unstable but have to be ill enough to qualify). If they think someone needs years of therapy they can refuse as they won;t see someone for that long and say it's better not to open the can of worms.

They don't just take the children just because a mother is depressed. FGS Grindelwald, did you read that in the Daily Mail?

I'm not agreeing with Grindelwald particularly, but it was me who mentioned a woman who was going to be forced to have her unborn child adopted. She had been labelled with the dreaded "Borderline Personality Disorder", following a sexual assualt in her teens iirc. Had since got a lot better, been to university etc, but was believed to be at risk of Munchausen's due to the BPD label and the connotations and stigma associated with that. She was called Fran Lyons. In her case a psychiatrist who'd never met her wrote a damning report and the reports from those professionals who knew her were ignored. How could that happen? (It all came right in the end but she did flee the country for a bit.)

[If you'd told me some of the things I'd see and even experience due to the stigma of that diagnosis I'd previously have accused you of being a Mail reader too...]

Hemming, a sitting MP at the time, managed to get banned from MN, if you want to take that into account when you decide how much faith to have in his words.

I think anyone who remembers why knows what kind of man he is.

But discrediting the individual theorists won't be the quick way to put the theories to rest.

Sorry, I should have added that the social worker who dealt with them was later dismissed for gross misconduct involving another case. But obviously the children could never go back to their Mother.

Yet more posters saying they know of one dodgy case so there must be something to the documentary's claims. Look, everyone agrees that sometimes cases go horribly wrong and sometimes there are miscarriages of justice. That happens in healthcare, in criminal justice, everywhere where human error, substandard practice and lack of resources can have catastrophic consequences. Why would it not happen in child protection?

I happen to think that children's services are in a bit of a mess, and need sorting. But that is NOT the same as believing that the system - and the individuals who work within it - are corrupt and acting in bad faith. By focusing on these conspiracy theories, we neglect the really important discussions we should be having about how to improve child protection.

Incidentally, I do rather resent Manumission's suggestion that adoptive parents can't be objective on this issue. I suspect we're rather better informed than the average Mnetter.

Oh, and John Hemming is a ridiculous dick. Any doc that takes him seriously is probably not worth watching.

Yet more posters saying they know of one dodgy case so there must be something to the documentary's claims.

If you mean my post, I did not say that. In fact I made it clear in my earlier post I don't think it's a conspiracy. But it is REALLY scary what dodgy professionals can do, and others close ranks rather than whistleblowing.

Incidentally, I do rather resent Manumission's suggestion that adoptive parents can't be objective on this issue. I suspect we're rather better informed than the average Mnetter.

I was just trying to warn OP that these threads don't stay calm and detached.

I thought that was just accurate and fair warning.

I wasn't just talking about you, OnTheTurningAway, and I don't disagree that there are some crap and dishonest social workers who cause real damage. But the conspiracy theories cause real damage, too, and it really worries me that so many people believe them.

There is no conspiracy. The family courts are not 'secret' (just confidential to protect the children, but the rationale for the decisions is published). There is no financial incentive to target innocent families. 'Emotional abuse' is as damaging as physical abuse. 'Risk of future harm' still has to be proven to a judge. Social workers don't get higher bonuses for snatching blonde babies (we've had that on a number of threads).

So that leaves us with the real problems, including a chronically demoralised and under-resourced workforce, low continuity, poor leadership, fear of blame, admin overload, and above all a chronic lack of resources and political will for supporting vulnerable families and so preventing the need for taking so many children into care. I realise that doesn't sound nearly as exciting as a dastardly plot (have any of you read Robert Kilroy-Silk's 'book' on this? Hilariously bad.)

I'd kind of prefer a conspiracy because it would be easier to fix...

Fair enough Manumission, but it's not just the adoptive parents who get heated surely?

It explains why it's so personal for so many here maybe? Puts the angry "what a load of crap" stuff in context?

I wouldn't bother explaining that some people have strong opinions if someone came to discuss a documentary

This shows you the true face of social services. Heartbreaking

Er, yeah, the Brits did it here in Australia too. It's called the Stolen Generation and refers almost exclusively to Aboriginal children.

This ended in the 70s though, and now it's damn near impossible to remove a child from their parents.

Dorcas But the conspiracy theories cause real damage, too, and it really worries me that so many people believe them.

Yes I agree with that. And I think there's probably many, many more instances when SS involvement is too late rather than overdone.

What I'm wondering though is how on earth the Fran Lyons case could have happened if it's supposed to be this considered, involved process? Why did one psychiatrist who'd never met her hold such power?
Whilst I don't agree there's a conspiracy as such - certainly not a simple, child-snatching type one - I wonder about prejudices coming into play (eg. the BPD one - being assumed to be at risk of Muchausens because of the belief (amongst many) that people with BPD are attention-seeking.) It is the fear and powerlessness that gets me. If I am blessed with children I will have a plan in place (eg. kinship care etc) as I am terrified of being the one in a thousand or whatever where it happens.

And an example of baby snatching