being made redundant isn't 'basically the same as being fired'

[TheSunnySide]

Two people have said this to me in the last week.

My post has been made redundant and I leave my job of almost 20 years early next year.
I was offered the chance to take Voluntary redundancy but was told there was no chance at all of my post being saved - I chose not to take it as voluntary, partly because I get more help with redeployment in the company and partly because I wanted it on the business records that I did not choose to go.

Now I am worrying - would it look better to say I voluntarily took the opportunity to leave for new things rather than I was pushed?

I'd like genuine views from people on what they think when they hear someone has been made redundant.

I don't think it is the same, however, I too know people who were made redundant as the company wanted rid of them. They can only sack you if you have done something wrong, otherwise they make you redundant.
They can't replace your job within 6 months if redundant, they get round this by offering somebody the same job/role with a different job title.

Thank you for all the comments.

Where I work there are no star performers, we are not selling anything. It is purely my role that is going because the business will no longer be providing the services I offer.

RE "Were they offering better terms with voluntary redundancy? Would you be looking to claim Job Seekers Allowance?" the terms were the same, I have s definite end date but could have left earlier had I taken voluntary.

I have a feeling my redundancy payment will stop me from being able to claim Job Seekers allowance or whatever the benefits I am entitled to are.

Pestov thank you for the encouraging words (And others too) I have a good package and am trying to look at this as an opportunity to do new things.

atticusclaw2 in my case the redundancies were part of a percentage cut forced upon the department. People had to go by a certain date, I was in a pool of two and told there was no way I would get the one job if I applied because of a language issue.

GnomeDePlume thank you too for the best wishes, I was angry and I am increasingly frustrated as I work towards my end date.

Heathcliff27 You have reminded me to check out my Mortgage insurance.

"There is NEVER only one round of redundancies. If you get through your working life without one you are doing well."

Oh god, yeah. My colleagues are going to definitely go through a round of redundancies soon as they are merging two areas. I do feel like I got off slightly luckier here as it really was my post going and I didn't have to compete with anyone to try to stay.

It is purely my role that is going because the business will no longer be providing the services I offer.

That sounds to me the kind of redundancy that is absolutely not the same as being fired.

Onwards and upwards, OP.

I know loads of high fliers who've been made redundant. Shelf-stackers, not so much. It's your own fault for doing well, OP ;-)

Seriously, good luck in your job search. Ignore the silly comments.

I think it's also a bit industry specific what 'being redundant' means. I worked for many years in the third sector, specifically for small organisations. I don't think I've ever worked for an organisation that had more than 20 staff in total and never in big
departments with multiple people doing the same role. I've been made redundant twice, once because the organisation was closing down, and once because they were getting rid of my role entirely and giving up
on that aspect of their work. That's pretty normal in my world and I don't think anyone has ever batted an eyelid at my CV.

I suppose it might be different in a big corporation where there are 30 people all doing the same thing, but that's not something I've come across. As an aside, though, surely being made redundant is one of the most common reasons to be looking for work. I can't believe most
recruiters would be that bothered by it.

If they are not offering any kind of voluntary redundancy package other than the standard legal minimum one then I'd stay - why not get paid for as long as possible while you're jobhunting?

Mrs H and Sapphire, they managed to argue on the basis of a small differential between my job and the others. They were full of major influencers for my future so not worth getting on their wrong side. It was stupid though, when I resigned they took days to accept it and kept taking me out for lunch.

Actually im not sure what's going on here but being obliged to take another job seems possible, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it but I'd rather have redundancy even if just statutory. Employers always find the best ways to screw you over though.

You can claim JSA for six months regardless of whether you get a redundancy pay-out, it is not means-tested.

After 6 months it is means-tested.

myfavouritecolourispurple thank you for that info, when I was younger you could go on the dole and be a 'job seeker' without the pressure of proving you were looking for a job. I imagine it's different now? I might not look for a job straight away.

Lorelei, I meant for the upcoming redundancies of which there are rumours.

Mine tried to tell me I was obliged to take another job or forgo even statutory redundancy too. They backed own fast when my lawyer and I
pointed out that and why the new one was unsuitable, and how riddled with questionable tactics the restructure process had been.

I got twice statutory and my notice paid, plus they paid my legal costs and have given me a good reference that I can always use in future.

Seriously, think about it. It's sometimes worth making their lives difficult.

I'm afraid that steadfastly clinging to the belief that "a person is not made redundant, it is always the post that is made redundant" is being a bit naive.

Certainly, it's true that 'roles/posts' can become redundant, and it's blatantly obvious when that happens - a client is lost, so a client manager isn't needed, an office closes/moves etc. If, however, there is a 'restructure' with lots of spurious consultation 'interviews' run by a shiny-faced new graduate from McKinsey (who is already earning twice what you do, after 30 years in the company) then you can be sure that there will be a lot of smoke and mirrors and it will be the roles of the poorer performers (or the older, more costly employees) which are 'no longer needed'. There will be lots of new, differently named, roles which are 'more senior' and 'completely different', but strangely have a job description which is 75% the same as yours (if you're being made redundant).
I've been made redundant three times and have had to make people redundant too. There shouldn't be any shame in it, sometimes the 'fit' with a person/company just isn't right anymore.

I took 'voluntary' redundancy (and a nice payout) on each occasion, even though staying wasn't really an option. It's just a mechanism to allow everyone to part amicably.
In my first redundancy, I had an alcoholic, misogynistic boss about whom I wanted to make a formal complaint . They offered to pay me off instead. I was getting married and took the cash and had a lovely honeymoon.

In my second, I was pregnant and rather ill with it, and the company tried to make my 'role' redundant but then offer it to someone else. It was ugly - lawyers involved. In the end, I settled for a big payout, rather than take them to court for sexual discrimination/constructive dismissal, as I was simply too tired/emotional to cope with a court case. On paper, it's still 'voluntary' though - pah!

• Third time I think it was a genuine 'role redundant' thing - a piece of legislation changed and effectively outlawed what my group did. I was offered another post in the company, but I wasn't interested in that area, so left and became a consultant instead.

You don't need to go into great detail about why you left a previous role, and companies actually pass on only very limited info about a previous employee e.g. yes, they worked here between 2014-2016.
So to OP - do whichever suits you best/gives you redeployment opportunities/a bigger payout. Then work out your 'story' about why you left and find something new! Good luck

I was made redundant from the NHS. They restructured and downgraded a lot of roles and completely scrapped my team. There was no voluntary redundancy option, so we were all forced to reinterview for jobs with more responsibility that paid less. The new CEO had a vision of filling the organisation with 'fresh thinking graduates' but they refused to accept my health related masters degree obtained within the previous 5 years as valid - too much experience of the old ways of working apparently.

So not only could I not leave voluntarily, I had to sit through the indignity of going through interviews for lower positions which I was told I was over qualified for but still didn't get offered.

I got a 5 figure payout and lived off that for a few weeks while I found another job at my old pay grade.

When previously told my job was likely going to be scrapped at another NHS organisation, I jumped before I was pushed. I was a full timer ad they'd got rid of the part timer and the one on maternity leave first. Then they decided that my job could be split between two more senor people. The last I heard that department was on its knees without a full time administrator.

My DF applied for voluntary redundancy several times at a global 500 company. They would never let him go. In the end he took early retirement and started his own consultancy.

In my company they were reducing a certain number of roles from 7 to 6, so they all went through a selection process. No one was really surprised at who wasn't successful. We were surprised though when one of the successful candidates resigned and she was told she was still being made redundant. What made it even worse was she was then made to do a secondment to cover maternity leave on a lower grade role before she could get her redundancy money. She walked into another job and, as far as I'm aware is doing alright for herself.

To be honest I now actively want to go and would go tomorrow if they let me. However I am a couple of months short of another full year which wold add another month's salary to my pay-out so I will stay until the date i was given.

I know people in my wider workplace who want to leave but probably won't be allowed to take redundancy as they are too valuable. :(

OP I think the people who've said this to you have not been kind, and they've over-generalised wildly, but they've probably done you a favour in making you aware that a lot of recruiters will have experience of selecting poor performers for redundancy, and may have negative preconceptions. Don't mention why you left a job on your CV if you don't have to, and do have a strong positive story prepared to explain that in your particular case it was the role not the person.

Of course it's not the same as being fired.

In the organisations I've worked for it was always about cuts and no reflection at all on the people.

I took voluntary when it was offered. They made the offer to the entire workforce. I snapped it up as it was a very generous package. Natural wastage across the board so no selection needed.

No reflection at all when applying for future employment.

Part of my job is making sure that managers can pick the ones they want without it coming back to bite us on the arse via a claim. It's not actually that hard to do once you know how.

Sure, there are some circumstances eg a site closure, where there is no choice but to make someone redundant, but generally there is an element of choice over who goes and stays - they will easily find alternative roles for the high performers if they want to keep them.

"they will easily find alternative roles for the high performers if they want to keep them."

I work for a large organisation but in a particular team doing a very specific role. I have had no luck being redeployed to other areas of the business because I do not have the skills they seek.

Do you think this is just because they don't want me in the wider organisation at all? There are absolutely no other roles for me in my area as they had to make a certain percentage of budget cuts.

I have a few redundancies under my belt. Was never looked at badly by future employers. Definitely not the same as being fired. see it as an opportunity!

Sunnyside in your case if they genuinely don't need your skills any more, then it would be a redundancy situation and you wouldn't have the opportunity of redeployment.

I guess in that case they wouldn't really be wanting to keep you, not because you weren't any good but because you'd truly be surplus to requirements.

What has happened is they have been told from up high to make 10% cuts. They have delayed it for months but the deadline approached so they sat down and said how the hell can we squeeze the department? The up-shot is they looked at the things we could stop doing and my job was one of them. Ever since they have been working towards a certain date with the target being that we stop doing those things.

With the redeployment they only match me with other jobs with the same grade but those other jobs, when they do come up in the wider business, are ones that need specialist skills or experience so I don't get matched. The redeployment pool are offered training but not to completely change careers.

needless to say I F hate it here now and can't wait to leave. In Feb I will have added another year to my redundancy and I might ask if I can go then.

OP I'm sorry if i missed this

Did you have an option to go right away with a pay off? Is there still stuff to do in your post till Feb?

I was lucky the one time I was made redundant, I got a decent pay off and was allowed to go immediately but others were told they had to do a couple of months or whatever. Is that's what happened to you?