The reason young people can't afford to buy houses

[GrabtharsHammer]

Is because they all have iPhones and Sky telly.

So sayeth my mother.

Nothing at all to do with the ridiculous house prices then? They are baby boomers and bought their first house for a few thousand quid on my dads modest salary.

Apparently the youth of today just need to get rid of their gadgets and telly subscriptions and then they will easily afford a deposit and mortgage.

Are everyone's parents this judgemental and out of touch or am I just particularly lucky?

(Fairly lighthearted) AIBU?

I suppose you would call me a baby boomer.
We bought our first house when I was 43. It was impossible in the early 70's to get a mortgage if you were self employed or female. Also there was then a lack of affordable housing, couples would queue, sleeping overnight on the pavements or in cars when a new development went up.
Despite having a good and secure job in the early 70's I was refused a mortgage time and time again (for being female)
Life is very different now in many respects and I think many on this thread are being ageist and judgemental.

I have four adult children, the oldest two have been able to afford to buy a place (Being a lot younger than I was when I purchased) They have lived at home while they saved, don't have student debt although a good education to A level standard has meant they have good jobs.
Times are different and you cannot compare.

I am retiring in 3 weeks, for all the years I have worked I will not have a pension that would support me were I single.
We will have to sell up when DH retires and move away from an area where I have family and friends.

Us 60 plus's are not all living in a comfortable bubble.

I'm one of those unlucky Baby Boomers who missed the property greed boat.

(Lost everything during traumatic marriage split. At one point I was a 'home owner').

Now I live in a council house that even with the biggest discount, I am too old to buy.

My oldest son went out after uni and got a job immediately, earning three times our minimum wage income. My son has since been promoted several times and yet even he can't afford a house and is struggling to get a deposit together. Most baby boomers, I'd guess, via their kids should be well aware of the situation.

We're rare in that my son may actually finally get his own home but when I think my family members bought three bedroom Victorian terraces for £10,000 in 1980 and that same house would now be worth almost £200,000 - that is way above inflation. (A pint in 1980 cost 50p. What are they now? £3? That means the £10,000 house should be £30,000...

Many people my age were there at the time so can do the maths.

My parents paid £1000 in the mid 1950s for a house with 5 bedrooms, 3 living rooms, an acre of land on which were several outhouses etc that would now be converted into massive houses in their own rights. They were on low wages. Mum just a secretary and dad a badly paid civil servant.

So, OP, many baby boomers are also aware of their parents' stories, to give some perspective, as well as their kids'.

Tories have turned property into an expensive commodity when we grew up in a world where a decent home was a RIGHT. You could always get a council house if you couldn't buy a cheap house. We have had 30 years of governments with cabinet ministers and MPs with fat property portfolios. Time to do something about it and make sure no-one at the top has any property apart from the one house they live in and maybe a London flat to get to work. Whilst the pwoers that be are corrupt and have vested interestes - a stupid house worth maybe £5000 in bricks, mortar and the same again in labour - will be sold for stupid money.

Cheapest property in my town is a studio flat flat for £159,00.
Thats why young people can't afford to buy.

Barbara, okay looks like I forgot about my London Weighting topping up my own pay, but when you look at these figures bear in mind London Weighting has barely increased over the years, if at all. So, I admit I was wrong, in the space of twenty years the starting pay has increased by £5000. It's obvious that the new generation in this occupation will find it harder to get on the property ladder when pay has been depressed like that.

"1 September 1996
On commencing service - £14,916
On completion of initial training - £17,295"
Taken from parliament.uk

"With effect from 1 September 2014 (there has only been 1% pay increases since that date so still relevant)"
"On commencing service - £19,383
On completion of training - £22,221"

I was a teacher in the mid 1990s and turned down for a mortgage (on a house that was around £50,000) because my wages were too low. Just to give a bit more perspective.

I think that for some people their lifestyle choices can stop them from affording a deposit for a house.
My ds1 has done it by not having anything for about 10 years.
No holidays, very cheap phone and contract, no netflix or other unnecessary monthly payments.
I'm not saying I advocate a frugal and meagre lifestyle but he wanted to pay cash for a home and he's done it.
He's 25 and exchanges next month.
We live in NW so cheap compared to many other places, but still relative as he has done this on min wage jobs.

So I can sort of see that when older people are saying you can do it without phones, Sky etc, they are right if you look at it long term over about 10 years.
I think they are referring to lifestyle choices.

House prices have spiralled but it's not impossible to buy as a first timer if you're not super fussy about where you live. There are still places in London that are relatively reasonable (even in Islington) but some first time buyers stick their noses up.

Many of them want somewhere that's already been gentrified and don't realise that unless you've got parental help you have start at the bottom of the ladder in terms of size and location.

I know people who turned their noses up at my area a decade ago who are now saying I'm lucky to live here now it's gentrified.They'll be renting forever trying to find somewhere to buy that's already fashionable.

20 years ago people would've rather been homeless than live where my aunt lived in Clapton (Hackney) now they're complaining that they can't afford to live anywhere near Clapton.

I bet if you suggest people buy in Edmonton they'll turn their noses up and complain in 10 years time that they can't afford to live there.

My only criteria were- can I get to work from there? Is there a shop not too far away to buy milk? I didn't give a monkees whether it had been featured as a place to buy in The Evening Standard or if acquaintances mocked my area.

I also think that if you can you should encourage your kids to stay at home for as long as possible and save so they don't immediately fall into a debt trap where they can't afford it save.

they are right if you look at it long term over about 10 years.

They're really, really not.

Average phone contract = £40 per month
Average Sky TV package = £58?

Total cost over 10 years = £11,760

Average house price = £216, 750
Average deposit required 25% = £54, 178.50

Difference = £42, 418.50

That's quite a few coffees and Netflix subscriptions.

I guess you could do it if you spend literally nothing for ten years, but realisitcally who can do that?

Imagine though having to really cut back and live frugally for 10 years in the hope you'll eventually have enough to put down that deposit. Always having to say no to social invites, never having those little luxuries that make life a bit better. I imagine it would all become very isolating and very joyless. At the moment me and dp are cutting back quite a bit to save for our new house and not foing out to meet friends for dinner and drinks is really making me feel miserable, especially at this time of year. I couldn't imagine doing it for years on end.

To mouse and others who think saving is possible for a deposit in some areas then if you are over 30 then generally yes it was possible in a non bubble area.

For under 30s not so much, of course in some areas its still doable but mostly its not, espescially those with student debt and the new bank affordability making it even harder.

Im 38 i was able to scrimp and save, many of my peers did not and so are stuck in rented now, the chance has gone for many and they are priced out. They werent always but did not adapt their lifestyles.

Many many more and particularly those under 30 never get the chance to scrimp and save as they already jam and scrimp to just pay rent and bills, thats non sky bills and non apple bills.

High rents, high income multiples and high affordability testing, high student debt, low house building, lower and lower employment rights and low wages is what is making it extremely difficult for younger people.

Average house price here is £283k
Average wage is £23k
Even with 2 people earning now can you save a 20% deposit when you are paying £800 rent per month?
Times change!
Now many workers need decent broadband to enable them to work from home/outside work hours
Ditto laptop
Ditto phone
Ditto reliable car (unless you live somewhere with good transport links but then that costs a fortune too)
Add in any childcare needed and it's pretty easy to see where the money goes...

I bought my first home when I was 21. Me and my then boyfriend (now DH) saved every penny we had. Walked 3.5 miles to work did a 10 hour shift on a nmw job and walked 3.5 miles back. Didn't have holidays, didn't go out on the weekends, crappy mobiles etc. He needed a car so bought a £600 banger to drive him to his ever so slightly more than nmw job doing agency work in a factory.
This was 2008, and saved thousands in the 2 years we did this which was enough for a 20% deposit for a 2 bed flat.
Friends who met the same time are now in a crappy rented 2 bed flat, they went out every weekend, 3 holidays a year, takeaways, meals out the lot and they earned more money than me and my oh. Coincidence, I think not.

And if you're saving 10 years for a one bed flat when do you start saving for the 2 bed so you can have children (if you want them)?

I bought my first house a few years ago at the ripe old age of 30, back in 2013.

It was the culmination of 4 years saving up a deposit, whilst supporting a missus and 2 kids. I was on quite a modest salary (£24K), but we were living in a housing association flat so the rent was a bit cheaper that normal.

During that time I had (still have) the same old car, didn't go on foreign holidays, we did have sky TV for a bit but only cos it was on a 12 months half price deal. We did have smart phones, but not brand new iphones, we had much more affordable android phones, usually 2nd hand.

I also managed to get my house bloody cheap cos it's a fixer-upper. And still is 3 years down the line LOL.

So, it is possible to buy a house, if you make a lot of sacrifices. It's definitely not as easy as it was for the baby boomers who could afford to buy a house at the age of 21 with a wage from unskilled labour.

How much did your son pay in rent, gillybeanz? Rent was what really scuppered my chances of saving for a deposit in my early 20s. Not only is it expensive per month in its own right, but you have so many knock-on costs from insecure tenancies - moving costs money, having to overlap your tenancies when you're moving costs money, extortionate letting agent fees cost money (glad this is being stamped down on now!), having little choice about where to rent in your area because you only have 2 months' notice costs money.

I don't live in the Uk - Dublin based and due to the crash post 2009 the housing stock here has barely increased. Not only don't people buy in Dublin due to lack of loan facilities we are now at a situation that there is nothing left to rent and hundreds of families are homeless living with grandparents friends or in hotels b&bs . I'd urge anyone reading this thread not to give up saving - do the 8 years of frugality if you must but get a roof over your head that's in your control. If you saw the hurt and misery of homelessness you would do everything to have a home for your old age when you will be unable to afford high rents.

I also managed to get my house bloody cheap cos it's a fixer-upper. And still is 3 years down the line LOL.

This is a good point. There are a lot of fixer uppers in my area for our budget (up north). However we would then have no money to fix up said fixer upper.

On top of staying home longer than most of my friends to save (and I did get stick from some for living with parents till 25) I also didn't go out often, had a very basic wardrobe etc. I was luckier as there was less pressure just a few years ago to be seen to be a 'winner'. These days social media and reality tv put a lot of pressure on youngsters to spend lots of money to live a 'successful' looking lifestyle which prevents them from saving too.

This is a good point. There are a lot of fixer uppers in my area for our budget (up north). However we would then have no money to fix up said fixer upper.

Yes, I fell into that trap sadly. The first 2 years were murder, but after paying off a bit of the mortgage once my 2 year fixed rate was up, I got a much better rate and I'm actually in the position to have enough money to make some progress on it now.

Many young people think they will never be able to afford their own home, so why bother to try to save for one? They use the money to have a lifestyle they enjoy instead, and I don't blame them for a moment.

And if you think it's "the Government's fault" then you need to get involved in politics. It's a representative democracy: if you don't like what we have then either promote and vote for someone who represents your views or stand for election yourself to give those views a voice. Can't be bothered? That's the problem.

I hate hate hate that poster who said that if you work in London just move to Luton, it's only 25 minutes.

Fine, 25 minutes on the train. But what about getting to the station, then the distance from the station to your place of work in London? Then what about the £6k annual cost of that journey? Then take into account that Londoners work extremely long hours. You end up with an utterly miserable existance.

I also wouldn't commute into London from another county. The whole Southwest trains issue has cemented that for me. Friends commuting in from Hertfordshire etc look knackered a lot of the time and it costs shit loads to commute in.

When she's of age my advice to DD would be to stay home and save and not have kids before you buy. Childcare costs will mean you will never be able to save. Avoid the traps.

MyIL's sage advice was "buy a large fixer-upper and do it up like we did". Yes. In 1984 when you bought a huge centrally located house for £30k, exactly twice your salary. Oh and your MIL handed you the £6k deposit not gonna happen with us

I don't really begrudge someone for being in the right place and the right time but it does irritate me when they don't acknowledge the part luck played.

Perhaps we have woken up and have realised that we are now a low wage service sector economy.
It was masked for 20 years by printing money for housing benefit and in work benefits, mass immigration also diluted the apparent debt per head ratio.
Houses are only worth what a person can afford, the young cannot afford these prices. Yes, the older generation have made riches through property, but it may be simply an illusion, they need to find a buyer to realise these gains.
It often takes their own children being unable to afford housing for the penny to drop.
There are many vested interests and votes reliant on high house prices, the change will come once the boomer generation die off. The political will is not there at present.

I buy my clothes in charity shops, drive a 10 year old car and we rarely go on foreign holidays, only to visit relatives. I still find I have no money to save each month after an extortionate rent and council tax. Where am I going wrong?! I'm not even living this luxurious lifestyle to which others are alluding!