To think asking for 6 level 7 (A) GCSE grades to enter the schools sixth form is a bit intense !

[firefly400]

DD is year 10 and to get in to her schools sixth form requires 6 level 7 ,and 2 level 6 GCSE's this is equivalent to 6 A and 2 B grades on the current grading system. I think this creates unfair pressure on pupils who most probably left to their own devices i.e not have to have 'sleepless' nights would achieve.

The school has problems with some girls suffering from Anorexia , Bulimia and self harming . The school should have a more reasonable (though appropriate expectation for A or level 7 grades in just the A levels required for study).

This alone would reduce the 'fear' and concern on my own daughter. Do they want to make their own 'very' bright pupils anxious for some kind of power race with over schools !

'We have more stringent entry requirements than you ' though our girls are always afraid of not getting an A*

Secondly getting 8 A at GCSE does not always equate to 3 A at A Level similarly as demonstrated by my Nephew getting no A at GCSE (only 4 A grades) does not mean you can't get A A level he got 2A and 1 A. The 2 A were in English and Chemistry ( Chemistry Dept did not think he was up to it since he only scraped a A at GCSE)

The final point what a pupil is at 16 is not comparable to the pupil at 18 !

OP you can't really send your kid to a super-selective, then moan when it's, errr, super-selective!

My children's grammar school requires an Average Point Score of 48.4 across ALL GCSE's taken (standard number is 10 some do 11) - points are as follows;

9 - 58
8 - 58
7 - 52
6 - 46
5 - 40

plus at least a 7 in chosen subjects.

The content of the new GCSE's is hugely difficult - containing aspects that were previously A-level. I have no idea what the government are trying to achieve, other than to create a nation of 'failures' at 16. Or adjust the pass rates to render the whole exercise ridiculous.

Myfavouritecolour - you can't compare O-Levels with GCSE's really. When you look at papers from the late 70's and 80's the emphasis was very much on factual retrieval/recall and learnt techniques/formulas etc.. Education moved away from this in the 90's and now relies on the pupil to demonstrate their learning through application and analysis. A completely different skill set.

I am in my 17th year of teaching. If I didn't love working with the pupils so much I would have left years ago.

Mental health issues are a huge issue in every school I've worked in. Expectations are huge, pupils are constantly present with each other every second of the day (social media). CAMHS services are woefully inadequate and under funded and the threshold for accessing services is high. Schools are trying hard to skill themselves in this area (onsite counsellors/psychologists/mentors etc) but it's not enough.

The elephant in the room - parental support for the pupil/school is at an all time low. Education does not work well in isolation.

Finally, many of the staff are dealing with their own mental health issues (stress, ridiculous working hours/targets, lack of support, unrealistic expectations - I know this is not exclusive to teaching!)

In answer to your question Firefly - most schools should be demanding those grades in order to move on to A-Level. Notwithstanding the odd anomalies, most students would find A-Levels incredibly difficult without that academic background and should be considering different options up to 18.

I am so glad I am not growing up now. I watch my own four wonderful children and wish they could experience the joy of school without the associated pressure, particularly in primary. I am really not sure what kind of adults our education system is trying to create.

I don't think it's an unusual requirement for a selective school.

Ds's school do IGCSE & currently ask for 5 B & 3C. They hsvnt yet decided what they are going to ask external students (dd may go there for 6th form)

The issue is that a Level 6 is between a B & a C grade wheras a Level 7 is between A/B. A level 5 will become the old Grade C but will he like a high C with Level 4 between C/D

I fully expect ds's school to ask for 7s in most subjects.

There is one state school in Surrey i know off (not daughters) that is putting its girls under such pressure that at least 10 girls in year 11 are under CAHMS

Unfortunately that's not an unusual figure. My school probably has similar numbers and we only take 4Cs to get into sixth form.

"I don't think it's an unusual requirement for a selective school."

It's certainly unusual in the selective schools I know. And I live in Kent, where all schools are selective-either actively or passively.

Mental health issues are a problem in all schools but I do think the issue is probably greater in grammar schools particularly for older pupils under exam pressure. They are surrounded by other academic pupils and competition is very high. Not only do they usually have very high expectations of themselves anyway, but there is the huge sense that they would be failures if they aren't allowed to stay in the sixth form.

It's certainly unusual in the selective schools I know. And I live in Kent, where all schools are selective-either actively or passively.

Kent has the old grammar/secondary modern system doesn't it with a comparatively high proportion going to grammar so not as selective as some of the grammars in other parts of the country?

I have just looked at the requirements for entry into the sixth form of the selective school which my ds attends - the entry requirements are an average of A grade at GCSE across all subjects. I don't know if entry requirements are more lenient for existing students but I think it might be. The school achieves excellent results partly because they select their intake. I am not concerned about the entry requirements because I think of my son doesn't achieve it then he isn't the right material to be studying in that sixth form.

And yes, Camhs rates are very high amongst teenagers from all schools and of all abilities, Especially girls.

Oh, sorry, I forgot. Kent schools aren't proper selective schools!

If you mean super selective then say it. Otherwise people with think you mean "merely" selective.

Have a look at other ideas too - a lot of professions now would prefer a specific advanced BTec as entry to the degree, than generic A-levels (if she's thinking of going onto uni and doing a vocational type degree).

I've lived in Kent and Hertfordshire. They're totally different. In Kent, if you were in the top third of the class you went to grammar school, in Herts you have to be the top person in your primary class, and even then some schools won't have anyone going from them to grammar. It's totally different.

Sorry- in Kent it's slightly less than the "top" quarter of the cohort

A completely different thing to the "top" third of the class.

OP, how would you feel if you had a very academic DD who for whatever reason didn't get into your DD's grammar, but left an ordinary school (where good grades are harder) with all A*s (or modern equivalent), and she desperately wanted to go to your DD's school for 6th form but missed out because "stayers" get to go with As and Bs?

All As and As, that is - I've no doubt they'd take a 10-Aer if she came from a swamp.

Actually has Bertrand knows because of the 'vagaries ' of its system Kent is probably the most selective of all places. Failing the 11+ in Kent is probably more divisive and career limiting than any other selective area, with the exception of Lincolnshire.

This is not to say whether i am pro or anti ,just factually you fail in Kent and the alternatives can be pretty poor !

I do not think not passing the CSSE 11+ Essex Exams or CEM means falling of a cliff as could happen in Kent.

For the record my old school Maidstone Girls has far better 'Pastoral' care and a less 'damming' culture of girls only achieving A rather than A* grades.

DD's school needs to understand attaining 3 A* at A level is not the be all and end all especially if achieved at the cost of a girl having a mental breakdown.

Far better a girl achieves 2 A grades and a B but be physically healthy for University.

This i know from old school friends who have sent their DDs there.

Actually has Bertrand knows because of the 'vagaries ' of its system Kent is probably the most selective of all places. Failing the 11+ in Kent is probably more divisive and career limiting than any other selective area, with the exception of Lincolnshire.

That is because it is more of the old grammar school/secondary modern system though than because it is more selective though surely? Where I live, not everybody who could go to grammar school take the entrance exams so the other schools are still comprehensives rather than secondary moderns.

I keep misusing, Has and as Sorry. Self diagnosed Dyslexia !

Completely agree that the stress we are putting our teens under is a disgrace! Poor kids.

DD's school needs to understand attaining 3 A at A

More importantly parents need to realise that. Including you. Except that's effectively what you've chosen for your child

Mary from what i have been told the 'High' schools in Kent are much better than they were 25 years ago. I know for instance that Valley Park Academy (Maidstone) is now very good. It is nothing like the school we were told to look straight ahead and woe betide any girl who had any contact with them !

I think though that the non grammar schools are better in West Kent than East Kent . Valley Park academic attainment is equal to many Comprehensives now and that would not have been thought possible even 15 years ago !

It looks from the chart that Blackdoglet sent that 7 is only just an A, with two levels still above that. So it is like a high B really.

It must be because there would be too much of a jump to the A level standard without these higher achievements as the starting point. I agree though there is a lot of pressure with too many exams.

7 is definitely equivalent to an A going by the chart and by what teachers are telling children.

7 is an A... 8 is top of A / bottom half Astar. 9 top half Astar.

7 is not a high B.

I don't think it's too bad for an academic school. That would not be unusual for the top academic private school requirements. If you have loads of children hammering on the door wanting to enter the sixth form when a few of your GCSE pupils have lazed around, done no work and need a kick up the bottom I don't see why those ones should keep their precious places which they are utterly wasting when others who would really work hard want to enter the school and cannot because of blocking of places by those who are very bright but choosing to play computer games every night and not often turn up to school.