Driving - two month old

[GashleyCrumbTiny]

We all know babies shouldn't be in car seats 'too long'. I am generally over-cautious when it comes to driving (non-driver, don't like going too fast, very nervous of people who drive long distances without proper breaks - which DH's family have a tendency to do). Am I being too nervy about the following:

This weekend, DH wants to drive to see his grandmother in hospital on Saturday, so she can see our ten week old baby girl. It's a two hour drive (each way). He then wants to drive to see his other grandmother on Sunday, which is a two-and-three-quarter hour drive away (each way). I think this is too much driving in one weekend. He has an hour commute to work each day and is constantly saying he's exhausted. He needs downtime at the weekend, not another ten hours behind the wheel of a car. He has arranged for us to have a lift on the Sunday with his parents but this would still involve a half hour drive to and from their house at the start and end of what's likely to be a long day. I am happier with the idea of getting a lift, but it's still almost six hours in a car seat for the baby in total - which I'm not really keen on.

AIBU? How far is too far in a car with a small baby? Is the Sunday trip a bad idea full stop, or is it okay provided he isn't driving? Or am I being a massive fusspot and there's no issue with him doing both trips?

I feel like we should make the effort for the grandmother who is hospital, as she's really not well. The other grandmother, there will be other opportunities to see her (although this weekend is a big family event and I know he will not be happy about missing it). Staying over isn't an option. Train could be on Sunday, but we'd need to lug the car seat so we could get a taxi at the other end - it wouldn't be any quicker and will be expensive, which he will resist because he thinks I'm a twerp being so resistant to just piling in a car and driving for hours and hours and hours no matter how tired you are. What do the wise women of MN think?

Myself and DH are drivers but I wouldn't be too keen on both weekend days of driving tbh. Even now with a 14 month old I wouldn't want to do it unless I had to. When my DD was much younger there's no way she'd have put up with all that time in the car.

India is a poor analogy given their road death rate!

Your husband needs his arse kicked about driving tired. The well secured baby would probably be OK in the crash but the poor bastard he hits because he is unfit to drive may not be.

Kaytee87, you did read it; it was in the paper on Saturday, regarding new borns being at risk in car seats after half an hour. The research relates to babies under 2 months old whose heads are likely to flop forward.

Thought I'd read it somewhere, still don't think I'd be driving that much even with with a baby over 2 months. I have a 3 & a half month old and we wouldn't - he hates being scrunched up in the car seat.

Fair point Chickpea. It sounds as if I'm being a bit PFB. Although I am going to insist on breaks.

The total time is not a problem. It's when they're in the seat for long periods with no chance to recover. The issue is that very small babies - newborns and premature babies - can't support their own heads very well and the steep angle of a car seat (required for safety in the car) can allow their heads to flop forwards either visibly (you see this with very little babies who are too little for the straps to fit snugly) or less-obviously but where the chin is touching the chest. This causes them to take in less oxygen (Try putting your chin on your chest and breathing) which is OK for short periods but can be dangerous if left for too long because it gets worse over time.

It's less of an issue with bigger babies for whom the straps fit closely. Brand new newborns, low birth weight babies and premature babies struggle most with this. A ten week old might be okay depending on their size. It's also less of an issue with some newer seats which have special padding or inserts which straighten out the seat curve for newborns, such as the Maxi Cosi Pebble. (I don't know off the top of my head which other seats have it). The head hugger included with some seats can also help prevent newborn heads flopping forwards.

You shouldn't be tempted to try to angle the seat more backwards to reduce the steepness, because this can be dangerous in the case of a crash. But when the car seat is out of the car and placed on the ground or in the pushchair it's at a shallower angle.

What you can do is sit in the back with the baby and encourage them to keep their head up by talking to them and playing with them. You might even be able to reposition them directly if they slip down.

If they fall asleep, you can also watch to see if they are falling into the chin to chest position. It's okay if they do, but it shouldn't be left for too long. If you can see that your baby is actually having to work harder to breathe or is grunting then it's a sign you need to take a break at the next opportunity. You should never take them out of the seat in a moving car of course.

If you do take a break, it doesn't have to be a long one. It's okay to just take them out of the seat for five minutes to have a stretch. As others said, you'll probably want to change and/or feed during that time anyway. But you don't need to worry about cumulative time spent in the seat. Just a few minutes out of the car seat is enough to return oxygen saturations to normal and "reset" the process.

Well I used the two hour rule with my little boy. We drove to visit grandparents and that's usually a 4 hour drive. We stopped halfway and had some food and made sure that baby had at least half an hour out of the car seat etc...

However, on BBC breakfast last week they have now found from a new study that babies shouldn't really be in car seats for more than half an hour as new borns, due to the drop in oxygen they get from being in the position with chins towards chests.
The doctor stated that while people should go out, if you can avoid a car journey then do so and keep them brief until baby has enough strength to lift their head up (then the two hour rule applied).

I can understand your worry and I don't agree that people are telling you that you are unreasonable. This is your baby and as a new mum you are likely to feel overprotective and worry about everything.

I do think you should visit family but I think planning the journey with several stops might be better and potentially making a weekend of it and staying over rather than all of that driving in one day. Yes it would mean two weekends away from home but it would be less driving in one go for everyone and plenty of rest stops to rejuvenate.

FWIW, I have read the study. My post takes that study into account. The difference is because the 2 hour limit was based on a car seat sat on the ground at 30 degrees. In a car, car seats are more likely to be at 40 degrees. They recreated the conditions and have changed the recommended limit in light of this - but - the study used premature babies, many of whom are too small for the car seat straps to fit securely and the seat pictured (I don't know if this was the only one used, it didn't say) is an older model with fewer safety features than modern seats - for example, it only has one possible position for the harness, which means that the harness is more difficult to fit to small babies. It also did not contain any inserts designed for use with newborns, which is fair, because not all car seats on the market do contain these, but does mean that if you are using a seat with one of these wedge type inserts, that it's likely to be less of a concern.

I forgot to add to my last post, don't be tempted to add any extras to the car seat to make it flatter or dress a baby in bulky clothing to make the straps fit better, these will affect the use of the seat and the baby could be ejected in an accident (of course, if the insert came with the seat it will have been tested with it.)

It's worth noting that the smallest crash test dummy for car seats is the size of an average 3 month old baby. It's not possible for them to test the seats as to how they actually perform with a smaller child because they don't have the means. And of course, crash test dummies don't test for breathing problems. That's why some doctors are concerned about very young babies in car seats. But the other way to look at this is to remember that although deaths have occurred when children have been left in car seats for long periods of time, it has always been long periods of time. They are finding results which concern them and which link back to these deaths as a probable cause, but the oxygen levels by 30 minutes will be on the very edge of what they consider problematic, it's not like it's on the cusp of what is life threatening.

Wow Bertie, that's comprehensive! Thank you - that's extremely helpful.

I think you're being a fusspot with the driving, but would be more inclined about the hospital visit, all the germs etc. My nan is in hospital at the mo and wouldn't take my 10month old up to see her & she bless is almost on her death bed.

Definately don't do it that sounds horrendous far far too much car seat time for a baby my LO is 5 months and I wouldn't do that much driving in one weekend with him. I also wouldn't voluntarily take a 10 week old baby into a hospital full of sick people