...to think Maternity services really should be better by now?

[Qwertie]

My Dsis has just had her first baby. She had C-section after 12 hours of labour due to the baby not doing well as labour progressed. I went to see them today and heard a bit more about her experience. She had to be monitored continuously & was coerced on to the torture device (otherwise know as the bed). She wanted to stand even if she couldn't walk around. She was also made to stay on her back and repeated requests to turn over were refused. She was "examined" by approximately 5 people, without being asked for consent; with 2 of these being excruciating whole hand in. Not surprisingly after 12 hours the labour was not progressing, she was only 3cms, and the baby needed to come out by c-section. She then had to endure 2 nights on a horrible, aging hospital ward with the instruction to feed whenever she could as the baby's blood sugar was low, but without any help moving her from crib to bed, so she had to hold her all night & had no sleep. She is now home (thank goodness) where her dp can look after her.

I experienced similar to this with Ds1 19 years ago, but labour with dc3 3 years ago was so much better (still some problems, but I was able to disregard them). AIBU to expect better than this?

YANBU

DNeice2 arrived this week, the ward tried to send her home 15 minutes before she was born with the cord around her neck.

I've mentioned this on another thread along with another incident and pretty much been accused of HCP bashing.

I'm not but two incidents within two weeks (same hospital) has quite shocked me.

So to even it out 3 years ago a midwife saved my youngest daughters life by realising she was in distress when a doctor didn't.

I have loads of respect for HCP's I certainly couldn't do it, bad experiences do worry me.

I agree OP, maternity care in this country is shit and a lot of mothers to be are treated with utter contempt by the midwives.

I won't go into the births of my kids but I really wish I'd complained after both of them. I think I was just so grateful that we were alive that I just ignored it and got on with my life. Someone upthread has it, that because the NHS is 'free' we're just supposed to shut up and be thankful, never mind how bad the service is.

YANBU. But maternity care will be low on the list of priorities because it only affects women. If men had the babies it would be amazing.

I found my DH invaluable second time round (first time round was awful, induced, monitored constantly and prevented from being mobile) we didn't know any better first time round. I was induced with my second baby 4 months ago and the experience was very different. Mainly due to myself and DH being more assertive. If your not careful your just treated like a job and not like a person in my experience.

I really don't think this is representative of a general trend, and not likely to get the most balanced responses. I gave birth earlier this year, had 2 midwives in the room throughout the active stage and as they were constantly present and able to monitor my progress themselves I didn't have a single examination, as my waters had already broken and the midwives said it was pointless taking the risk of introducing infection if I was obviously progressing properly. By the way this was in a midwife led unit, certainly around here it is not possible to get this amount of attention and midwife presence for a hospital birth.

I agree Betty

41 weeks here, probably shouldn't have read this thread.

Tfoot I also had a lovely birth experience with DC3 in a midwife unit in a birthing pool. The MW I had was really lovely (although she was still trying to get me to go to the cafe for breakfast about 5 minutes before my waters broke, I politely refused). However, I had 2 previous births & 1 late miscarriage on the delivery ward and was not treated well. With DD I would not have been able to be in MLBU or water, due to high BP. Would make sense if there was a much less stressful environment if you have high BP, I always think.
Dsis is not planning on making a complaint as she thinks she failed in needing a emcs and was also distraught yesterday at having "failed" to BF. Her baby would not latch on for any length of time and sis is so worried about DN andfrightened of having to go back to hospital if the blood sugar is too low or if DN loses more than 10% that she has moved to bottles. I didn't complain about some terrible treatment during 1of my births either as I was so ashamed of myself and humiliated.

Twodogs I'm not disputing that some women have it "worse" in fact that exemplifies my point really. The baby needed to come out after 12 hours, she wasn't doing well. It is the way the monitoring is carried out and used as a tool to control that I question. There was obviously a medical need for the emcs, but would there have been a need for it if not for the above? I'm not sure a debrief would be of any use as it would just describe what happened and reiterate the reasons given for all of the action taken.

That's awful. I'm so sorry she had to go through that. But you adnbu about it.
Luckily my experience in the birth centre was lovely with a wonderful midwife and student midwife who I couldn't fault at all.
But the so called care I received on the postnatal ward was awful. And my baby had a chest infection and had to go to NICU/ SCBU for 12 days. Do not get me started about the staff there. So bad I made a formal complaint about them.

yanbu. I had very similar, and it was in the supposed forward thinking country of Sweden. I did give consent to allow three students to shove their whole hand up my fanjo but my god did I regret it. If I'd known the pain I'd have refused.

Anyway, I felt I had no control over my own labour and childbirth. I wanted to see my child being born but they forced me to lie on my back. They wouldn't let me off the bed, the epidural failed SIX times and the last one they just left it in despite not working. Nobody made me feel they were in control, they were all dithering around me biting their nails and lips and even the anaesthetist kept jabbing my back like a bird trying to get a chip in the pub garden.

It wasn't a nice experience. I didn't bond with my baby for a long time. I was left being stitched up while my dp at the time sat cuddling the baby before it was taken to ICU or whatever the baby version is. I was so shocked by the experience of having something torn from my body and taken away that my hands were frozen in the air whilst I was lying down and I was staring at the ceiling. Nobody came to talk to me. It was very cold and clinical.

Since then my (ex) dp has claimed that since the baby was all right and I was all right, what was my problem and why should it all be about me?

So I'd spent months looking at these pamphlets and websites with pictures of happy mothers holding a newborn, watched 'One born every minute' and listened to the caring way my midwife spoke to me, and then found the reality to be quick a shock.

Yes not a thread for pregnant women ( although knowledge is power) I had a horrible long delivery and pretty poor treatment on the ward. E.g. Putting the baby in bed with me and telling me to co-sleep because I still couldn't move my legs and reach her, letting me lie in my own blood for 12 hours, not giving my my nighties which I couldn't reach myself, leaving the drip in even though the bag was empty. You catch my drift. ( this is just an example.... there's more) I discharged myself unsurprisingly. The midwife who visited did ask if I wanted to complain and I said no because I was so knackered but I wish I had. I did speak to a psychologist who was leaving her job to set up a private practice specialising in birth trauma. I completely believe I suffered trauma as a result of my experience. My friend had a similarly bad experience in the same hospital.

My wife's experience when my son was born 14 months ago couldn't be any more different from the above. They were fantastic from start to finish asking and encouraging her to change position and checking her constantly. In the end the baby was Breech and stuck, so it ended in an emergency C-section.

The aftercare wasn't brilliant because they were so full at that time of the year, low on staff but it was more than adequate. We moved to a hospital closer to home for a few days and the care there was brilliant (as was only my wife and 1 other lady on the ward)

Yes, care can and sometimes is poor. If you or a loved one hasn't had a good experience then the best way, in fact the only way, to force change is by writing a complaint into the hospital where the experience happened. It is good to vent here and in real life, but it won't change anything.

cashel I will certainly encourage my sis to make a complaint when she is stronger; she is not in a position to do so yet. It can take many years hindsight to realise that these experiences are not your own fault and that things could have gone very differently. Pregnancy, labour and motherhood are not good times for autonomy and making a complaint is not the simple black & white task that it should be.

Qwertie - I think you misinterpreted my post. All I meant was the fact that she had a c section after only 12 hours of labour suggested to me that there was probably significant foetal distress - hence a need for continuous monitoring. I wasn't implying that she had an easy ride and so should be grateful. I really do think a debrief might be helpful to help her understand why certain steps were taken.

Yes you're right continuous monitoring was necessary and they know the reasons for that and for the emcs that's not the issue at all. It's the total disregard for the person that is actually bringing the baby into the world and the disrespect that is quite commonplace that is so upsetting. The theatre staff took their time to introduce themselves and explained what each of the 10 people in the room were there for. So it there cannot be any medical reason for such degrading treatment in the delivery room and in the ward.

Sorry I misunderstood your initial post. I though you were questioning the need for monitoring. (Though from personal experience standing up and moving around whilst being monitored is very tricky). There is no excuse for treating anyone without respect or dignity. I hope she makes a speedy recovery. Enjoy the newest member of the family.

Aye there is probably 100 "good births" to every bad one iyswim good luck with yours

Ynbu. I have been very upset today over previous birth experiences. Ds1 i was made to lie on the bed for no reason and had 3rd degree tears. Left for 4 hours bleeding and unable to go for a wee. After surgery left in a room alone in the labour ward for 12 hours.

With ds3 i was monitored but told if he was fine it would be temporary. He was fine but they wanted to keep me there stuck to the bed. It was soon decided I would have an emergency c section and the midwife was in the hallway in the room arranging this when I was howling to get up because I was very close to giving birth.

She man handled me to try and get me back into bed, got my dp to also man handle me into bed and then went back to arrange the c section as i gave birth on the floor. Then told me I can't give birth on the floor as I pushed him out with her still holding my notes. Considering my history ot fast labours and i had clearly shifted from calm to frantic I am annoyed that she was still more interested in trying to arrange a c section.

Thanks pug, my logical brain knows that's probably the case, but it's hard to believe you'll be one of the lucky ones.

Looks like I'm being induced in a week at 42 weeks as sweep has failed and baby not even engaged yet...

I think threads like this do help me (even though it's upsetting me) because I agree with a PP that knowledge is power, and it's good to be aware of things that happen which aren't 'right'. Hopefully, it will give me the confidence to speak up, ask questions, be more informed etc. I'm terrible for not making a fuss and not saying things strongly enough at the time to be listened to, and then not being happy with the outcome, and being upset after!

This is the one time in my life I need to force myself to not be like that.

Good luck Aye You're right; labour is not the time to be a "good girl" Do what your body is telling you to do & ensure that your partner helps in getting any monitors to you rather than the other way round. Trust your instincts, it's so easy to be moved away from them when you put your trust in the people that "know" what they're talking about (if you know what I mean). Even if it doesn't go to plan, the moment you see/hold your baby is like a thousand xmases.

Also you could go for a really long walk (within a sensible radius of civilisation obv) & have sex while snacking on pineapple?? -This is to avoid induction btw, not weekend activity suggestions

That sounds like a plan!

I think my best bet is to leave civilisation on the last train out of the city at night to a place with no phone signal and no hospital and no way back. That'll probably bring it on.

Off to the Highlands I go!