Recruitment, can't believe how hard it is!

[Sunnydawn]

I read and hear so much about people wanting flexible working, and how so many people are stuck in dead end jobs, or on zero hours contracts.

But, I am involved in recruitment for two jobs right now, one a professional job in a lovely environment, as a part time job share. The other, a part time, flexible, admin job, again in a lovely office, with training and a good career if you want it.

And no decent applicants! No applicants for the first. Loads who have applied for the latter, but ecan't even attempt the basics forvan interview or trial (ie. turning up in time, dressing half smart, answer a phone).

Frankly, I despair. What are people doing? Where are they working/wanting to work?

These are different places, by the way, so it's not the particular environment.

It's not "extremely, extremely rare", it's not the norm otherwise it wouldn't be competitive but there are a good number of employers that pay that as a starting salary and many more where you can get to that within 3 years.

We don't actually advertise the rate of pay - I think we probably use term "competitive" or "above market". We use recruiters, LinkedIn, our website etc and I never let HR screen for me

I'm really surprised how many people are really surprised.

If you're paying fresh grads £120k how would you justify paying someone with, for example, 5 years experience of admin £22k? There'd be outrage and understandably so.

I feel the OP pain. I am constantly recruiting for full and part time positions and I amazed at how long it takes and how many people come for interview and then go quiet when I offer. Or don't turn up for interviews or don't turn up for the first day.

We are paying well above the average hourly rate for the PT jobs and offer at least 20 hours per week. Full holiday pay and other benefits.

Paying over £22k plus monthly commissions and quarterly bonus for entry level sales ( no cold calling, very niche and sought after product)

We are in the SE though where unemployment is very low but still, I would hope somebody would want the jobs.

Venus there's a lot of people here saying they are having issues, and in real life I don't think I've met anyone who recruits and doesn't find it a nightmare - from small companies through to huge ones. Why do you assume we are all universally stupid? The tone of your posts is coming across that you hate people who employ others and is really aggressive.

Whispering I suspect if you look at stats for what grad roles pay you will find that 100k plus really is at the extreme end of the salary scale and offered to a tiny proportion of grads. The vast majority of grad schemes start on more like a quarter of that.

Whispering well personally I'm surprised because your description of the job sounded like something a 15 year old could do, while most teachers with years of experience will never earn that much.

As a LP I'm sadly not planning to move from my PT accounts administration role for some time. I would probably lose my parental leave entitlement for 12 months and employers can get rid of you at any point in the first 2yrs these days. As much as I hate my job and as much as I could do so much more I simply can't risk moving and have to sit tight. So there could be lots of people like me who can do the job but are too scared to move.

If you use "competitive", Whispering, probably a lot of good candidates see that and think "the pay is crap"! Loads of NMW jobs are advertised like that.

Agree recruiters are mostly crap. I wouldn't apply for a job through an agency again as on the odd occasion when I have, the application's just gone off into the blue and I've never heard a thing.

My institution advertises most jobs as full time but we say they can be done part-time or job share unless the recruiting manager can make a cast-iron case for the post having to be full-time and one person (happens rarely!). I think that probably gets more applicants than simply advertising part-time, as it gets round the hours problem - if the job is advertised full-time and you want 30 hours, you're in with a decent chance of negotiating 30 hours.

Tax credits changed so part time is 24 hours now if you are the only parent who works. That won't help.

Where do you advertise? I need to start looking but the agency I use is shite for part time ditto the main job sites. Didn't think to look on here.

I'm an admin person (and unemployable media person). Been out of work for a few years but I still know my way round word!

I suspect this is about location. I have noticed that the quality of applicants we get for jobs has went way up in the last few years. I have no problems at all filling jobs with very good staff.

The problem with part time work is part time pay.

Wtf? What do people what and expect?

There are many reasons for wanting part time work, and yes it may not be worth it financially due to childcare fees and ir travel cost resulting in the fact that your working to pay for above mentioned things, yes it does put folk in a bit of a quandary but this can't apply to everyone. There will always be a limit as to what you can pay someone to do a job if they hours drop so does the money and whilst yes it may mean it's not cost effective for some to return to pt work after kids etc some dont have kids that need childcare and the kids are in school and are a bit older an they may have easier links to work. There will be folk out there who these jobs will suit it will come down to if they are looking for a new job and if so finding the adverts.

In the last few years my department recruited for a part time admin position with school hours. I was not involved in recruitment but we had over 500 applicants and got someone amazing. She is massively overqualified but likes the job because of the hours and has no plans to move.

I have to say though that another position (again, I was not involved in this) was a lot more vague about the hours, refused to specify them despite candidates asking and only got 20 applicants. The school hours for the first job was a huge pull.

We don't use a recruiter usually. Having seen the outright lies a friend was told by recruiters I would now avoid applying for any jobs through them if I could avoid it.

I am getting to the stage of being over qualified for my job. I am planning to leave in the future but that has nothing to do with my qualifications and everything to do with the complete lack of managerial support.

I'm currently looking for a seniorish role.
I have been totally upfront with the recruiters about the hours I want to work - I have been sent for interviews assured that the potential employers know the hours can work but when I arrive they clearly haven't been told.
In one case I was offered the job at the interview as long as I could be in x town by 8am each day (impossible) and another where I was again offered the job but couldn't leave until 4. I know I'm asking a lot but I have excellent skills and experience and am happy to wait for the right job so I'm VERY upfront about what I want . I often get recruiters saying " I'm sure you can persuade them when you get there" or just not telling the employer at all.
Wastes everyone's time

here are a good number of employers that pay that [£125k] as a starting salary

No,it is extremely unusual. It may not be unusual for your company and sector, but you are a small part of the jobs market.

Why don't you help out mumsnetters children by being a bit more exact - what roles, what indistry and what qualifications would a new grad need to get on me of your 100k jobs.

A huge issue is that the job market is so opaque and unless you know someone in the insmdistry it's very hard to find out what the pay and work is actually like.

I keep getting recruiters phone or email "great job in a dynamic boutique"... £40k less than I'm on now. I'm not looking to move. If I moved it would be for more cash. Stop contacting me with this shit!

I would never apply for a job which doesn't state the salary. There is your problem - you are putting off the good quality candidates from the start

Another thing that gets my quote is recruiters calling me about a job that is 'local' to me which then turns out to be over an hours commute from home! Not thanks!

yello

I don't think I'm being unhelpful

I've given a list of industries where that level of salary is not considered "extreme" all of which I've had direct experience with and told you what we (and competitor companies) pay for an experienced admin role.

Statistically I agree that Venus approach is a bit "you're all stupid" but you then seem to apply same approach to me: of course we look at the stats: Our comp & bens department don't pluck figures from thin air. They work with multiple external TPs to benchmark and calibrate our packages against our peers and competitor employers.

I think people often don't see beyond their own experience: the comments re teachers for example. It can't be any surprise to people that teachers are poorly paid in the scheme of things.

I do agree that there ought to be more transparency within recruiting.

Generally people don't like to talk about money - that's understandable but as a junior employee that's not always helpful.

As a mentor I've always been very frank about what I earn and encouraged (particularly women) to get informed about salaries and ask for what they want.

I agree with pp that employers expect too much and in my experience can't be arsed to do any training so expect candidates to have exact industry experience and skills, they don't really get the idea of transferable skills.

That was my experience in applying for admin roles. They had tons of applications and were only interested in people who had done that exact role before, totally an employer's market.

The failing for a lot of PT roles is that they don't pay enough to cover childcare, don't state what the hours will be and in some cases even what the salary is.

All job adverts should replicate how public sector roles are advertised. Full job and person spec, hours to be worked as well as number if hours, salary and pro-rataed actual salary, location. It's amazing how many miss out one or several of these. It comes across as a bit shoddy, either the employer doesn't know what they want or are looking to take you for a ride.

I agree that if you want good applicants, state the salary. Competitive salary often means relatively low paid IME.

I meant with regards to you saying it's not a tiny proportion of grads earning that, as you said up thread. I didn't say you didn't know the figures for your specific industry niche. And I think you've had a name change fail btw.

I'm not working atm, part of the problem for me is not only finding a part time job but one that is within school hours, I have absolutely no support network to help out, my partner works away half the week (not set days either), and pays enough money to cover childcare costs so I can work.
I can't even look into shop work as their most busiest period is Christmas time, my dc will be off school for most of December and I've no one to watch him for me, the pay from this sector just wouldn't cover childcare costs. All companies also insist that you are completely flexible, which I can't be so I think it's unfair for me to apply for half the jobs I see because I'll just end up pissing them off when I tell them I need to leave at such a time to pick up my dc from school.

I'm waiting for a job at the school

Thanks for pointing out name change fail - it's not too fatal

Earlier this year I recruited for a junior role with school-friendly hours, excellent career progression prospects and a decent salary and had lots of applications but hardly any from people with school-age children. It was a bit odd but we found someone good anyway.