Recruitment, can't believe how hard it is!

[Sunnydawn]

I read and hear so much about people wanting flexible working, and how so many people are stuck in dead end jobs, or on zero hours contracts.

But, I am involved in recruitment for two jobs right now, one a professional job in a lovely environment, as a part time job share. The other, a part time, flexible, admin job, again in a lovely office, with training and a good career if you want it.

And no decent applicants! No applicants for the first. Loads who have applied for the latter, but ecan't even attempt the basics forvan interview or trial (ie. turning up in time, dressing half smart, answer a phone).

Frankly, I despair. What are people doing? Where are they working/wanting to work?

These are different places, by the way, so it's not the particular environment.

Or a DBA.

This thread has been very enlightening!

Though I'd also love to know more details about the 50k admin role myself. Is it in the Midlands? :D

To be honest I personally avoid recruitment agencies like they're going to set me on fire.
Some experience with them.
Applying for my first job in a certain field (sales if anyone cares) some minor apprenticeship experience elsewhere and some basic retail experience.
I walked in, sat down. interviewer was reading through my CV as he went along as if he knew nothing about me.
Interview lasted about 30 seconds before I was told I didn't have what they were looking for which was B2B sales experience.
I left crying still hope no one saw , because I felt quite embarrassed about it and had used my last fiver 3 days prior to payday to get a return train ticket.

I applied for another job, same agency, I went there, did the interview fine, got home and got a call from the agency to tell me I'd gotten the job and to go in the following Monday. I was devastated when I turned up on Monday to find out they were actually hiring Jane Roberts and not me, Jane Thomas (Names changed obviously) as I'd spent 2 days telling everyone who'd listen about this fabulous new job I'd been offered that would totally change my finances.

3rd time, different agency,
Job was apparently 40hrs a week with the chance of overtime, 9.60ph.
Got there, Did the interview, Asked questions about shift patterns etc. Then found out that it was actually a 16hr contract with a possible extra 8hr shift offered, was only 7.90ph. I was gutted because the hours just weren't enough to make it feasible and again I'd wasted time and money going.

4th time another agency,
Got sent the wrong address but managed to get to my interview literally just in time, Interviewer had my name down wrong and a wrong CV for another person (name and CV belonged to two different people, not me) so I had to basically spend 20 minutes trying to remember exactly where I'd worked and when, what I'd done etc while nervous. Interview went quite badly, Didn't get the job.
I now won't go near an agency if my life depends on it. I've nothing against recruitment agencies as a whole but those are my only experiences with them, so if they're recruiting for a business they name I'd rather go direct to the business, if they do not name the business in their advert I don't bother.

Perhaps unsurprisingly I've had loads of PMs I will send you all a message with location and I'm more than happy to speak with anyone who is genuinely interested.

Whats really interesting about this thread is how worthless some people imagine admins are (non graduate tech can't get a role paying that).

A good admin is worth their weight in gold. And a good exec assistant is worth double. These are valuable contributors, my department wouldn't run without them.

I am disappointed we clearly don't hit the right spot when recruiting. I'll certainly look at ways I can improve that

I am recruiting at the moment. Had 17 applications, shortlisted to 7 suitable and sent out invitations to interview with 5 days notice. Only 3 of the 7 responded to invite! So frustrating not even to get a 'sorry...got another job' or some response.

Just like it's frustrating to fill in forms, do lots of prep, go for an interview and then never hear anything again. Which is quite common.

Venus - I am with you on that one. I always respond to applicants, regardless of how many I have had. I really hate the fact that some companies want you to jump through ridiculous application forms only to never contact you.

There are ways to address feedback - if someone's not made it past an initial sift then a generic email saying that they didn't meet the bench-marking criteria is sufficient. At least acknowledge the fact that they've applied and not been successful.

It really does piss me off. How are people supposed to know and develop and get better if you don't give them some kind of feedback?

And as for never contacting you after an interview - that's not just rude, it's appalling.

People can be quite sniffy about admin jobs but in London, PAs/EAs generally earn 30-50k with bonuses and other perks such as healthcare too. Most of the (younger) assistants I know are graduates too.

Whats really interesting about this thread is how worthless some people imagine admins are (non graduate tech can't get a role paying that).

My comment was in response to you claiming people doing administration for IT companies can get paid that. I know many it technicians that only get paid half of that. As a nurse responsible for the care of over 150 people in one of the most dirtiest hostile environments you can imagine, I get paid just over that. The only person I know on that kind of money is doctors, assistant head teachers, researchers etc. I know decent administrators are worth their weight in gold, I rely heavily on one every single day. Can you not understand how frustrating it is to others to claim this is the normal salary for this role, when most administrators won't see a salary that's even half of that during their careers? I was a medical secretary years ago, on £20k a year. I know salaries have increased since then, but not by £30k a year....

I loved your post otherpeoplesteens
The fact is, IMO, that getting a job after a certain age (maybe around 32) is really tough for women.
There is a massive amount of ageism about.
In the past I worked in Internet companies, tech companies managing social media before social media was a term, doing SEO, all sorts of things.

I then veered into doing something very different, that had irregular hours, so post dc looked into Web based jobs again.
Couldn't get an interview. After a while I realised that the person they had in mind was a 23 year old man (or a young woman if the role had more PR elements) not a 35 year old single mum.
I would never put my date of birth on a cv but let's face it, if you graduated in 1999 they are going to figure it out.
Its amazing to me the way intelligent, articulate, savvy, experienced women are disregarded.

A professional administrator, I have recently left a job because the only staff management sent me to do senior admin work were inexperienced, unqualified temps. One had a degree in something to do with theatre but she had no idea how to lay out a business letter. I use Excel extensively but none of the temps could use it. Everyone nowadays has keyboard skills but this is different to typing a report and adding graphs, charts, pictures, hyperlinks etc. I ended up doing the work of three people because management thought anyone could do admin.

I took me quite a while to become this qualified and experienced and most people don't value it at all.

It's a weird environment out there at the moment. I have recent experience of recruitment at both ends. I must say, I can well believe the comments from people who've been subjected to JobCentre applications, but that aside, I think a rather large part of the problem is too many employers wanting too much for their money. I'm in a field where there's a real shortage of people with my level of expertise, hence those people are quite sought after. And I've been disappointed when recruiting. But frankly a big part of that is that it doesn't really pay enough.

Hi Whispering, if it is you that is recruiting, there is a current thread about a very well qualified (Oxbridge modern languages) graduate about to give up teaching from total exhaustion. She sounds so impressive and keen. You might want to be very kind and pm her with the details.
She worries that she won't find work. She will because she is clearly, hugely capable, but it would be a boost for her to talk to you perhaps. Just a suggestion.

StatisticallyChallenged ...Oh, with a side order of parents trying to get jobs for their adult children

Yes! I'd forgotten about them.
Post goes up - Weekend bar staff needed at local pub/other adult place/during school hours/some other reason which makes it completely unsuitable etc.
Mum replies "is this suitable for my 15 year old daughter, she's lovely!" Great quals mum, but you just might be biased?

Or posts like "My son is after work does anyone know of anything PM me please". Well with that go-getting, motivated attitude, I'm sure he'll be the next Alan Sugar!

Mrsmuddle regarding applicants from overseas having a 'better attitude' it is easy to be willing to do just about anything to get a job if you've no ties, and no financial commitments. As certainly the majority of them are likely to be young child and caring responsibility free and funded (by parents?).

Pisssseeddofff

The attitude to training and education in the uk is appalling and he been for decades (my point being while this govt is one of the worst it's certainly not unique). I've friends and family worldwide and aside from the USA people, generally they're shocked at the lack of government provision/support/investment.

There seems to be this attitude that it ONLY benefits the student/potential employee! When in fact the skills shortage has an effect on everyone - as employees, business owners, customers, members of society in terms of the effect on the economy.

Couldn't agree more. I recently advertised a part time work from home job. So difficult to find people!!

I took me quite a while to become this qualified and experienced and most people don't value it at all

Anyone with school level education should be able to draft a report, manipulate data in excel and insert charts and links. That is standard fare from GCSE upwards.

It also isn't hard to google "how to make a stacked bar chart" or whatevs.

From an admin perspective, a good PA is worth their weight in gold. They really can make a huge difference to their organisations.

It's also easy to do the extra hours and commitment when you have no kids or caring responsibilities. But as an employer I'm not interested in presenteeism. I want you to have good quality output and not need micromanaging. If you have a sense of humour so that we can have a chat and a laugh whilst working, then that's an added bonus. One of my best members of staff is PT and has small children so can't do overtime or stay late. It doesn't matter because she doesn't need to. She's ferociously organised and comes in and gets her head down and blitzes through it. She's conscientious and easy to get on with and quite frankly I'd happily have a whole team of PT people working around each other, if they were all like her.

You sound like a decent employer, pauldacre.

Yello I've been disappointed to learn that even in IT subjects few schools now teach basic ms office type skills. I've had to teach my daughter myself despite her doing 2 IT type subjects last year. I was blaming the school until I spoke to friends with kids same age (15) and found its true in several schools across uk. Ridiculous!

Lashes, I'm agoraphobic. I'd LOVE a work from home admin job.

I've excellent word/excel/access skills and qualifications, including being able to combine all three to produce a document/presentation.

In addition I have a degree in English

Through previous jobs I have knowledge of medical, legal, engineering and technical, government and military terminology.

I'm well spoken with English as first language but can also speak 2 foreign languages and muddle through in another 3.

Have a working knowledge of sales and customer service.

But every time I've looked into working from home positions they've turned out to be

Scams (usually pyramid schemes)
Very poorly paid
Temporary
Poorly supported by the employer.

From the other side, my DP has desperately been searching for a new role in finance for the last few months. He's a great candidate, brilliant cv, relevant degree with 2+ years experience from well known companies.... he is regularly told the uni he got his degree from is not good enough. (Can't currently afford to do a Masters, but will when we can afford one). He's often told he hasn't got enough experience but on job specs it welcomes candidates with any degree (e.g.- English, History etc just from a better uni). It's soul destroying that he literally applies for hundreds of jobs, gets interviews and they always go with another candidate but have no negative feedback for him! Really wish someone would give him a bloody job because he's fab (and we need the money)...

Gosh Yello - that's a really ageist statement! I've only got one GCSE because I did it for fun as an adult. When I did my O levels and A levels and degree MS excel didn't exist; when I started work MS Word was a black screen with white writing, not an image of the document you're producing. I've had to learn all those skills subsequently.

From the other perspective, I'm finding job hunting absolutely soul-destroying. I spent 25 years working in the media so have loads of experience in writing, design, proof-reading, office admin etc etc but can't find a job following redundancy. I apply for loads but the majority never even get back to me. I've got kids but have made it clear on applications that I'm not governed by school hours or anything. Still nothing.

Sunny I'm guessing you're around same age as me. When I started in admin Windows didn't exist. Green on black, waiting on a cassette to upload the software EVERY MORNING

Learned as I went along then ended up with a fab boss at one point who happily sent me on loads of training. Plus took an evening class for a year in IT admin for business.

It made things SO much easier and I continued using at home.

Bugsy sadly what you're experiencing is likely ageism/sexism. Which while illegal is bloody hard to prove!