AIBU to think that parents who have had a child removed for abuse shouldn't be sharing 'I love my daughter' posts on Facebook?

[user1478863067]

My brother and his wife look after their niece who was abused by her birth parents. The child has no contact with her parents, and as jobless no-hopers, they don't contribute in any way to her life. She was taken into care after they neglected and harmed her (the dire state of their home was worthy of a Daily Mail photo story), but because the family court operates in secrecy, they have been pedaling lies and messages of 'I'd do anything for my daughter' and 'we're victims of injustice' for years. My brother maintains a dignified silence whilst they slag him off to anyone that will listen.

I feel like posting the truth on their pages so that no-one else falls for their BS, but know that I'd just end up getting blocked - and possibly facing 'contempt of court' charges.

So, Mumsnetters - what would you do?

[differentnameforthis]

I'd do what your brother does.

My dad is raising a relatives children (he has complete legal guardianship of them - relative has NO rights over them what so ever), they too do the poor me thing, it makes me sick, to be honest. But we maintain the silence, even though they throw abuse.

[facebookrecruit]

navy thanks for the advice but neither me or dsd has the woman on FB. Some of the slander is passed on for us to keep in case more lies are told to the authorities (we have mutual acquaintances) but DSD doesn't see any of it. It's purely to cover our backs - I don't rise to any of it and both me and dsd have block lists as long as our arm. It's sad really but necessary because we've had major issues with false accusations to the police etc and I can never be sure it won't happen again

[Interesting2Me]

Agree with Navy et al that all the abuse apologia is silly and a bit self righteous. Nobody excuses abusive men with "love". Mothers can also not love their children. Unless you think that it's nice when abusive men post about how much they love their children on FB and how it's "unfair" to judge them, maybe people should stop criticizing the OP.

[39up]

One of my best friends was removed from his birth family for reasons of neglect - his mother had severe mental health issues and really wasn't coping - suicide attempt in front of him etc. As an adult he's back in touch with her and I think does still love her, and really wants a relationship, although he absolutely accepts he couldn't live with her and it was right to put him in foster care. He's also always been very protective of her and doesn't like other people commenting on her in a negative way.

So I guess what I'm saying is that for your niece's sake, you don't want to create upset and anger if you can avoid it. She may want a relationship in the future as an adult. She almost certainly would rather know she was loved than believe the opposite. And she is the important one here.

[MaQueen]

Agree interesting. Why on Earth do some people think that just because someone is a parent that they will automatically love their child?

Quite clearly some parents don't. There was a thread on here ages ago, where quite a lot of parents admitted to never having really bonded with their child. And, although they had never, and would never, be abusive they just didn't feel any love for their child and (secretly) regretted becoming a parent.

Very sad. But this does happen. And if it happens to a twunt with a very malicious, spiteful nature...well, that's when abuse can start to happen.

[differentnameforthis]

Being incompetent parents, even bad parents, doesn't mean they don't love her Erm..they neglected her and harmed her to the point that they lost custody of her, they play the victims and think THEY are the ones hard done by, they continuously slag off the people caring for her, they don't contribute to her care at all ...

I don't think here is much love there at all, to be fair! Except for themselves ... And knowing someone like that is "there for you" doesn't mean shit, either. It's not hard to see it's all words, IF they truly loved her, she would be at home with them, or they would at least be contributing to her upbringing.

That isn't to mention the opportunity they would have been given to get their shit together, in order to get her home with them again, that they obviously failed to do.

And the minimising of child abuse on this thread is upsetting.

Maybe in years to come the child will find those posts saying they're loved etc and it'll be nice for them to read despite the fact that they had to be removed No, it will be completely confusing for them, because the actions did not, and still do not, match the sentiment.

Do you seriously think that a child who gets to teen years would see those posts as anything worth believing, when her parents
1] neglected her and
2] harmed her so badly that she got taken away from them, and
3] don't contribute to her upbringing
4] slag off those who are raising her
5] pretend that they are the victims, failing to acknowledge her plight

[AwaywiththePixies27]

Everything mycatwantstokillme said.

No of course SS dont usually take kids from the BPs for no good reason but sometimes, just sometimes, they DO get it wrong. In the same sense they often aren't as harsh as they should be with the ones already in trouble from their BPs. There has been several serious case reviews opened here recently in cases where the child / children should clearly have never have been left in the BPs care when there were already concerns, them poor kids would still be alive today if they had. .

I also agree with what another pp said about a lot of it stems from issues in the family background (not excusing it) and as they so rightly said they probably still do love them, in their own way.

I don't know if any of you can remember a case a few months back in the papers, apparently the BM screamed at the social workers one day "take her odd me I'm a terrible mother.". She was frightened of hurting her. Well they didn't , obviously trying to keep the family together, and the poor child died.

But I echo everyone else, let people talk, and say what they like. Your DB ie ignoring it and if he should, you should, however much you want to put things right. Even if you were to comment and say something in your DBs defence and rightly so, it wont change their mindset or opinion or their friends. It also wont help the DCs either. Sometimes dignified silence is better than shouting into an empty abyss.

[GettingitwrongHauntingatnight]

It must be soooo tempting but just block them. No good will come of you posting the truth.

[Namechangeemergency]

My DS wants to see his birth mum. Even after a recent even that was utterly horrendous he still wants to know about her and hasn't written of the possiblity of some sort of contact.
It won't happen until he is an adult because she is not willing to do things on his terms. Its got to be all about her.

So don't make statements about what kids will and won't want when they get older or will or won't be a comfort to them.
We have kept every scrap of information and all the things from his bmum. There aren't many gifts. But we kept the plastic wipes box he came with, the blanket he had and the teddy she got him.

FOR HIM. So HE can make sense of things and no that HE IS WORTHY of his birth mothers love.

If he takes comfort from the small bits of evidence that she thought about him and was sometimes able to try and meet his needs then I will be happy for him.

All this weird revenge stuff on this thread. Wanting to punish people you don't know, have never met, on behalf of children you know nothing about. This isn't about you lot. Its about the children involved.
The implication is that those of us who refuse to continuously denounce our children's birth parents, who refuse to write them off as evil and without redeeming features are apologists for the abuse and neglect our children suffered.
We do this FOR our kids. To help them build their self esteem and resilience.
I don't want my son growing up with some fucked Victorian sense of being from bad blood.
No matter what I think of the birth families actions. That would make me like them, incapable of putting his needs first.

[39up]

differentnameforthis - well, yes. I mean, I am close friends with one person who was removed from his birth family for reasons of neglect and abuse and who still loved them.

I've worked with looked after kids in various forms as well and it's actually not unusual. Kids tend to love their parents, even if those parents are deeply flawed and they want to be loved back. And the adult adoptee I've known who has struggled the most with his birth mother was a guy who's birth mother never gave any reason for putting him up for adoption, didn't want contact when he reached out to her at 18 and who he never felt he understood. He found that hugely difficult.

Kids want to be loved by their parents. I think it's a very adult projection when we say "they'll see X parent is no good". Of course, this isn't universal and some adoptees may feel that but many do retain a very strong emotional attachment to the original caregiver and that's perfectly normal and OK.

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

My DD has friends who were removed from their parents for severe neglect due to drug abuse.

Were the parents terrible? Apparently so; all four of the siblings were removed over the years. Do the kids love them? Well they have told DD that they do, and don't seem to blame them, just feel really sad about the situation, despite having adoptive parents who seem perfectly lovely.

I think it is possible to love your child and still be a completely inadequate parent. Addiction and mental heath problems happen to all sorts of people. Of course children should always be removed and allowed to thrive. But some of the comments on here are really shocking. Shaming someone for their lack of education and poor writing skills is pretty low.

[39up]

Namechangeemergency - very well put. Very wise and you said it far better than I could.

[Leanback]

Often parents who have had their children removed love to shout about how great a parent they are and how much they love their child. I've seen parents whose children are in care refer to themselves as stay at home mums. Most parents who've had children removed never accept any blame for their actions. It's the sad truth to the situation.

[Namechangeemergency]

No it wouldn't. Not on her terms.
On his, with expert support it would be. But that isn't going to happen.

The fact is though he will be able to see her in a few short years whether I think its beneficial or not.
So my job is to prepare him and part of that preparation is to give him the resilience he will need to cope with whatever happens if he does.

You don't build resilience in children by reinforcing their ideas of being unlovable, so unworthy of love that their own birth parens couldn't even love them.

You have to teach them that 'love' is not all that it takes to keep a child safe and well. That 'love' means different things to different people and that even those who say they love you are not always going to put you first.

You don't tell them 'of course she didn't love you, she didn't feed you!'
You don't tell them 'she didn't want you so you came to us' but you also don't tell them 'she loved you so much she gave you to us'.

Adopted and fostered children deserve honesty. Not fairy tales or value laden judgements based on the anger and resentment of their carers.

[LifeLong13]

NameChanged you eloquently explained what I was trying to say. Thank you.

[Namechangeemergency]

TBB Lifelong it took me ages to manage to put it into words, I have been waffling for the rest of the thread

[facebookrecruit]

Any 'parent' who emotionally/physically abuses their child, neglects them or allows them to come to any sort of harm does not deserve any empathy or second chances.
I say this as someone who firmly believes emotional abuse is as damaging as physical if not more, and think it should be punishable by prison. If my DSDs bio mother physically abused her to the same level she has emotionally abused her she would be getting a jail sentence (and rightly so) yet she gets nothing but people's sympathy because they believe we have managed to convince a teenage girl that her 'loving amazing mother' is evil without any reasoning whatsoever. Oh and we have also been accused of basically kidnapping her and moving her to another area 'against her will' yet have still to be reprimanded by the police for this apparent crime. And people just lap it up.

[Inthenick]

Facebook, I think you would be shocked at how rarely parents do get prison time even for physical abuse. Torture, rape, etc. and the parents usually walk free. Some of the things parents have done to their children beggers belief. And no prison time.

[SeaEagleFeather]

I saw some extreme examples of what can happen, oh, 26 years ago now. Christ. Christ almighty.

I have some sympathy for people brought up appallingly who simply don't know how to look after children well, because if someone takes the time and effort to show them they will listen, learn and get better.

Some people though ... to torture young children the way they do .. christ.

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

NameChange and Tinkly your posts are very insightful.

I see how defensive my DS whenever he feels his daddy is under attack. He adores his daddy.

His daddy is an abusive man who neglected DS and could never prioritise DS's basic needs above his own whims. It's a very good thing that we don't see him anymore. And I try every day to repair the damage that man did.

But DS is mourning his daddy's absence, he feels rejected, and yes, unloveable. And to blame. Sadly, that's something many, many children feel.

And telling him that his daddy didn't care enough about him to feed him or to keep him safe... it would break that little child's heart. And the truth is much more complicated than that. And that's what I have to help DS through.

And later, as he comes to understand that his father hasn't behaved as he should have, he will question what that means for himself, as the son who comes directly from him and shares half his genes. By painting his father as an evil man with no chance of redemption, it could be that DS will think he has that badness in him too. It will take years to see how best to help DS through all this.

Love isnt always enough.