AIBU to think that parents who have had a child removed for abuse shouldn't be sharing 'I love my daughter' posts on Facebook?

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My brother and his wife look after their niece who was abused by her birth parents. The child has no contact with her parents, and as jobless no-hopers, they don't contribute in any way to her life. She was taken into care after they neglected and harmed her (the dire state of their home was worthy of a Daily Mail photo story), but because the family court operates in secrecy, they have been pedaling lies and messages of 'I'd do anything for my daughter' and 'we're victims of injustice' for years. My brother maintains a dignified silence whilst they slag him off to anyone that will listen.

I feel like posting the truth on their pages so that no-one else falls for their BS, but know that I'd just end up getting blocked - and possibly facing 'contempt of court' charges.

So, Mumsnetters - what would you do?

Stay out of it. They have had a child removed and however inadequate they were as parents and however much it is the best thing for that child that they were removed, that is painful. They have to live with what they have done. This is how people do that.

If the child was removed with SS/court involvement I'm surprised any ongoing contact is permitted other than via a neutral letterbox. Has she been adopted now? Your db is not putting dn interest first by continuing FB contact. You and he should remove them.

I agree with the advice to block these people. They will always want to promote a narrative that they're victims because admitting to themselves and others that they abused and neglected their children is too much for them. It's better to step away and leave them to it.

One of DS2's best friends in living in a similar kinship care situation and it's incredibly difficult. The worst thing is that his mother is surrounded by enablers who have a vested interest in maintaining the fiction that she's a helpless victim of those evil social services and the grandparents who're looking after the child at the moment. To do anything else the enablers would have to examine their own roles in letting things get as bad as they have or would have to recognise that they are themselves neglectful and abusive parents. So they all maintain the fiction that the mother has done nothing wrong, loudly and aggressively on social media and in person.

Of course, this woman does love DS2's friend. She's just so fucked up that she's completely incapable of facilitating never mind prioritising his basic needs and continuously puts him in dangerous and damaging situations. I feel quite sorry for her, but I feel much more for her poor son.

No one is the baddy in their story.
quite rightly there are things in place to stop social services and those closest to the children talking about cases.
But there's nothing stopping the other side spouting all sorts of shit, with social services unable to defend it and call bull shit.

You have to block and ignore for the child's sake - you know this. It doesn't make it any less shit for anyone.

Thinking people will understand that there is more to the story than the BPs are sharing, they do not need you to tell them.
The rest will choose to believe the BPs anyway, so there is no point trying.

Focus on supporting your DB. It is not easy being a kinship carer, or caring for a child who has experienced neglect/abuse. The problems still crop up years later and are very hard to address. If you can read up on it, you will be prepared for difficult situations you may all face further down the line.

I really get your frustration, though. The BD with names and birth dates of all his children tattooed on his arms.... All in SS care.

Why are you reading their fb? What does it gain you? All you are getting is hurt, and it is a situation that diesnot involve you.

You get angry because they are slagging off your brother, faur enough he is your brother. But it is nothing to do with you, and he is not getting any.

Step back. Let them witter to anyone who will listen. Do not get involved in the gossip. You know your brother and his wife have done an amazing thing for those children, provided them with a safe loving home. Do not waste and iota of energy on reading the parents fb feeds. And certainly don't waste it on anger. Spend that energy on loving and supporting your brother.

Block them. And don't go looking for trouble and pain. There's enough in the world without voluntarily seeking it out.

This is one reason why I do question the perceived wisdom that children are best going to a family member.

At any rate, if it's all you've known, you might just struggle to understand why it's wrong

Step right back, do not post, block and ignore.

The last thing this child needs is a ding dong on FB.

The majority of children who suffer abuse do so because their parents are inadequate and cannot cope. There is almost always a family history of abuse going back generations compounded by drug, alcohol and other MH problems which are themselves cause and effect of that abuse. Abusive parents do not hate their children any more than you do yours

This.^

While the ideal situation would be that every child has loving parent(s) who would never dream of abusing them, unfortunately it's not always as clear cut as this. I'm sure that some parents don't love their children, and abuse them. Some parents don't love their child and don't abuse them, e.g. Some women with PND. And some parents love their children and abuse them. Especially when complicating factors (e.g. MH, drug abuse, difficult backgrounds) get in the way, it becomes more complicated than "abuse = hate" and "not abuse = love".

So, I suppose that's just a long way of saying, that someone might love their child even if they're not fit to parent them.

I don't understand why you're looking at what your brother's in-laws are posting on FB. These aren't people you like, their behaviour is only going to annoy you, you acknowledge that saying anything to them could cause issues for your brother and the child - why engage at all?

Do what your brother is doing, ignore and rise above it. Despite how pissed off you must feel seeing your brother trashed.

But I'm shocked at the posters who are saying children are never taken away from their parents for 'no good reason.' Actually a lot of women who have been with a violent partner have their kids taken away. If they report DV to the police, SS get involved & the kids can be removed because the mother 'failed to protect them from witnessing violence'. If they say nothing and can't leave and it's discovered, SS remove kids because there was DV in the home that the mother did nothing about. Have been in touch with women this has happened to and it's heartbreaking.

So don't be too quick to judge because not every woman who's kids are removed deserved it.

Mycat, all the women I have known in this situation have not given clear signals that they will prioritise and protect their DC. They tend to let abusive men back into their lives. It is awful, but children can't be left there while the mum learns how to protect herself and them. It takes too long and the damage to DCs can't be undone. The nature of DV is that women subjected to it can find it very difficult to stay free.

Don't flame me- I know many women successfully move on from DV situations. You can't always leave children until Mum is ready and able to make the break, though. Appallingly, removing her children leaves her even more vulnerable to DV. It's a dreadful cycle and the cuts to women's services and refuges are scandalous.

You do nothing. You think of the effect on their daughter if she saw your posts. I adopt and I would NEVER dream of publicising the details of why my dear son came to be with me. NEVER.

pklme the women I've known HAVE tried to remove themselves from the DV, but with cuts to refuges, he bedroom tax, the benefit cap and austerity (which hits women and kids the hardest) it's not always possible to move safely. That, together with the police's dismissal to take DV seriously (in many cases) means that a woman is damed if she does, damned if she doesn't.

I'm not flaming you, what I'm saying is every case is different. Whilst some may not be able to protect their kids from violence there are many that do, and my point to the other posters is that they shouldn't be so bloody judgemental when it comes to 'SS don't take children for nothing'. The problem is that family court processings being in secret means that people really don't know what's going on and the reasons judges are giving for removing kids from their mums - some of those reasons are appalling and shocking. Again, SOME not all.

OP you sound very naive and simplistic.

My grandmother abused my father. She locked him in a coal shed and hit him.

She did it because she needed to go out to work and earn money, and couldn't cope with a fifth child, and felt desperate. She wasn't a brilliant parent and today I'm sure a child like my dad would be removed from such a parent.

She also loved him, deeply. This is not in conflict with the above.

FFS, these people might be terrible monsters. More likely, they are inadequate parents who are hurt and feel persecuted and bewildered and are vocalising affection for their DD because it is the only link they have with her now.

Just keep your mouth shut and thank God you're not in that situation.

This is one reason why I do question the perceived wisdom that children are best going to a family member

Its not perceived. Its based on a lot of resarch and experience of long term outcomes.

Do you think the birth parents of children adopted out of family don't do exactly what the the parents in the OP are doing?

Kinship care comes with a hell of a lot of challenges. Not least the lack of support we get from professionals and the odd perceptions people have about it.

But it is the best option for a lot of children. NOT ALL. But one of the reasons to turn a person down as a kinship carer is not that they will be abused on FB.

I agree that the OP should stay out of it. Block them. You don't need to see it. This couple very probably do love their child and very probably don't understand why she was removed. This is their part of the story and they have to be allowed to express it.

I have been living with this crap for 13 years. Its part of the package. The kids are worth it.

My sister fosters twins. Coincidentally, their mother is a friend of my friend's on Facebook and has her profile open so I'll occasionally see one of her photos on my timeline that our mutual friend has liked or commented on.

Always pictures of the twins taken in the contact/access centre with captions like "me n me babez in there new clothes after been down town. I luvs them I do" and then comments of "you always have them looking so lovely" etc. Eh, no- you see them for an hour of supervised access once a week and show up less than half of the time. You've never bought them a Christmas or birthday present.

She's had another baby and I saw a photo of a newborn taken at a hospital with "can't wait 4 my girlz to have there babby boi home". The twins were born addicted to drugs and this poor little mite looks seriously unwell too so I'd imagine social services are involved. Lots of responses with "aww hun perfect lil family".

It's so fucking frustrating. I really should block her.

Can't believe the number of child abuse sympathisers on this thread. Bloody depressing.

It's incredibly simple. If you're with a man who is abusing your children and you do nothing, then you are an accessory to child abuse. The only exception would be a woman who maybe felt she couldn't leave so contacted SS to remove the children. But oh no, let's make excuses for these worthless women who put their abusive fuckwhit partners before their children.

If a woman comes on to MN to say her partner hits her she gets very little sympathy from many on here if she doesn't want to leave. So why in God's name are we sympathising on here with the women who carried on to do nothing and have paid the price. Shall we all have sympathy for baby P's mother? The mother of Daniel Pelka, (SP?) No didn't think so.

MY DP was abused to the extent he has a permanent disability as a result. the SS records state that it was because the mother was in an abusive relationship, there were other children as well, all of whom were eventually removed. except the mother was also instrumental in the abuse. DP has recollections of some of it, which I won't mention here, but while she may have been a victim in her own right, she is still a child abuser, but used her victim status to exonerate herself. She left her abusive partner and went on to have more children in another county where her history wasn't known. They grew up with her, and she tells them the poor me victim story and they believed her.

She is a.child abuser. She is not an innocent victim, and incidentally, she never saw her children again after they were removed into permanent care. But she has done the "I love you" speel on e.g. Facebook. My DP doesn't have her on FB but he does have siblings on there who have her on there, I have blocked her. I don't care if she loves her children. She loved herself and her abusive partner more than them, so IMO she lost the right to say she loved them when she (and he) abused them.

My DP has said in the past that maybe one day he would like to see her again to get some closure. I will be there for him before and after, but no way ever will I have her anywhere near me, or my home, or my family, and I don't even want the bitch to know my name. He (and his siblings) were the victims. Not her.

Anyone who is friends with child abusers on FB needs to question a bit why. Then block them and move on.

Their children have been removed.
Their declarations of love for them are not going to make a bit of difference to that.
Acknowledging that they have the right to tell their story the way the want to is not an abuse apology.

Fact is most neglect is down to inadequate parents rather than evil intent. It doesn't make it ok or any better but that is what it is.

DS's b.mother still thinks she did no wrong (see my recent thread). Personally I am done caring about what she feels or thinks but it would have done me or my DS no good to refuse to acknowledge her feelings.

namechange, but there is a difference between neglect and abuse. A parent with e.g. MH issues, or learning difficulties who perhaps ends up with an abusive partner, who doesn't have the right support to bring up a baby safely Is of course deserving of sympathy because neglect is something which cannot always be foreseen if someone has never been shown what to do with a baby.

However a parent who batters their child to the point their optic nerves are permanently damaged, or who puts cigarettes out on their child's body, or who beats their child if they wet themselves but refuse to allow them to go to the toilet, or who starves their child, or who makes their child do things to them sexually (we're talking about a woman here btw,) that is deliberate and willful abuse. Should we really sympathise with that? Really?

Of course there is. The majority of cases are neglect though.
The ones that make the papers are the extreme ones. The media are not interested in the others. The Sun wouldn't have given a toss about little Peter before he was murdered and the Mail would have described him as a feral thug if he had survived.

There are ways of sympathising that do not involve forgiving or colluding.
My DS's birth mother is a horrible person. I don't want anything to do with her. She has proved over and over again that she is incapable of putting anyone first and is a danger to my DS.
But knowing her mother I can see exactly how she got to be like that and I can sympathise with her as a child and feel sad for the way she was raised and what she had to cope with, what she missed out on.

Still wouldn't let her near my DS or other DCs though. Still don't think she deserves him or should have him back.

I don't hate her. Why would I use up valuable energy on that?

The crappiest parents are always the most vocal on social media about how much they love their kids.

It's the same with relationships - the ones who are always declaring their love for each other on FB are the ones who are shagging someone else or are abusive to their partners or whatever.

They may well still love their daughter . But yanbu it would grind my gears. I'd block them.

Namechange

My personal feeling is not that children should never go to a family member but that it can be risky to always assume this is the place they will thrive.

Sometimes, a clean break is for the best. Other times it is not.

I'm so sorry I disagree with the earlier post about parents still loving their children even when they've abused them.
That is total utter shit.
I know because I come from a man who abused me, no fucking parent loves their child after abusing them, NO PARENT. If you're subjecting that child to torture, then that's because the love for them has gone.
They don't sympathise with the child, they care about their own selfish feelings.

OP I wouldn't get involved, only because the courts are already involved there isn't much you can do with the Facebook situation. Other than block them. The less you see, the less you know, the happier you can all move on with your lives.