New £23k Benefit Cap.

[legotits]

AIBU to ask if anyone still supports this?

Which families is this targeted at?

Anyone who will be affected, is it even feasible to not be pushed into debt?

I did not vote conservative.
Pay for company directors should be capped if the lowest paid workers are eligible for tax credits.
Private landlords should be capped as to how much they can charge in rent. Those caps should have been put in place first.

People wanted benefit cuts so voted for them, pretending they believed there would be reasonable benefit cuts only.
Everyone says 'Oh but not for disabled people' except thats what you voted for. Remember all the nasy comments about people who fraudulently claim sickness benefit?

No, thats all been forgotten. You pretended to think that the deserving poor would be protected. You got what you wanted. Pray its never you, the support net isnt there any more.

Make jobs, create schemes if necessary like in the 1980s... then whinge at people if they're still at home.

Exactly. This would make sense IF there were a shitload of jobs going unfilled as people chose not to take them. But this isn't the case at all. As much as they like to pretend there are loads of jobs...half the ones on their own website are fake for gods sake. The majority are for 0 hours or commission only. And the few that are genuine require qualifications. Qualifications people out of work cannot actually get as if you are on a real course that lasts over 15 hours per week, your benefits stop. Unless of course it is a stupid 'government' training scheme that gives you n o actual qualifications and instead has you sat around an office for 40 hours per week doing fuck all. or workfare of course..

We earn much less than that as a family. DP works full time, I am a SAHM/freelancer from home as we can't afford childcare even with tax credits childcare element. Free childcare rules different in Wales so we can't get any free hours until next year.

I do not support these cuts, and I especially don't support the disabled being targeted by them.

Throwing something else into the pot, years ago the people at the top had nicer homes/cars than the average person but certainly not private jets and multiple homes. Where is that money coming from? The worker bee's of course. We are looking down when we need to look up. Cap benefits by all means but a wider view is needed. Low wages, high rents etc there are many other reasons people are disaffected. We've went backwards in terms of living standards for most people.

Upping wages is not really compatible with globalization though, nor is it something that governments can necessarily control. Cheap workers in E Europe/India etc are already causing job losses in the UK through outsourcing and undercutting. I very much doubt that a higher NMW would improve the lot of the average working person over the long term nor the UK economy as a whole.

From a policy perspective I am in favour of the cap in principle. However I have never claimed any benefits so I don't have first hand experience of the likely impact. What I will say is that the disposable income levels that claimants seem to have - based purely on threads I have read over the last few days - seem fairly generous to me. Like a pp I would prefer that more generous provision was made for the sick and disabled.

Pay for company directors should be capped if the lowest paid workers are eligible for tax credits.

Love this.

So I can sit on my backside get £23k a year, don't pay childcare, holiday clubs, prescriptions, dental treatment, school meals. Are people living in the real world?

If I was going to have a child I would have to make sure I could afford it. I don't think people should be vilified for not working but I also think if people chose not to work they should not earn more than someone who does work, and people saying you should be allowed to chose a "worthwhile" career are imo a little bit ridiculous.

Really? So you don't have a child until you know for sure you can afford it for the next 18-21 years (including uni contributions of course!). So you, what, put that amount in savings before getting pregnant? Because NOBODY can guarantee that 5 years down the road they won't get hit by a financial slam that wipes them out or perhaps end up injured or ill and are unable to work. NOBODY. So I guess NOBODY should be having children then, right??

And who says they CHOOSE not to work? You're aware that people get laid off, right? People on here have posted about how they have applied for hundreds of jobs, and are still unemployed. There are often hundreds of people applying for a single job.

The whole farce of DLA -> PIP hasn't gone away either. Many disabled people are still losing their Motabilty cars - many dependent on them in order to get to work, so then have to go on the dole.

I went to a PIP appeal with someone (deaf, and other health issues) recently who works full-time on minimum wage and even PIP at the lowest level would have transformed their life. With their disability, they'd have got the old DLA no problem. They were turned down at appeal for PIP, despite having a hearing aid, and various gadgets supplied by CAPITA to amplify sound, etc etc. As we were in the waiting room - at the local County Court - a prisoner was dragged right past us in hand-cuffs.

My (autistic) son luckily got PIP without going to appeal but I can't help thinking how terrified he'd have been to be within a foot of someone in handcuffs, surrounded by security.

Disabled people are being treated like criminals. This is going on right now, today. Let's not let this government wriggle off the hook for what they are doing.

Very few hearing impaired people are getting PIP. But most who applied, got DLA. Their disabilities haven't gone away but the new guidelines were drafted so amateurishly, that many disabled people are not hitting the narrow criteria.

And meanwhile, all over the UK, disabled people are sat waiting to be called in to tribunals, inches away from criminals in handcuffs. (This includes young and vulnerable adults, of course).

Totally agree that private landlords should be severely controlled, as should directors of companies who have a single employee on minimum wage or a zero hour contract.

I don't support it in any way shape or form. I've never thought living in benefits was something to envy... it even when I was a higher rate tax payer.

If someone needs to live in a certain area for family support etc and that means higher rent this will scupper them.

For example I care for an elderly parent....if I was affected to enough to have to move away the tax payer would pay far more in care fees than they do in allowing me to stay.

I am not affected by this cap as I only have one child. I still do not support it.

Why does my comment about working hard exclude people in manual/low skilled jobs?
I believe if you get up and go to work each day and do any job you are working harder than someone who doesn't (For the sake of clarity I mean someone of working age and ability) so yes, that person who goes to work and works hard should be rewarded.
I also don't believe that money is the sole reason people go to work - the motivation to take a job in the evenings in a supermarket or bar may well be chosen by parents who want to manage childcare between them so one parent works days and another nights/evenings. Someone may want a job that at the end of the day they can switch off from and not be thinking about at home, for many these are lifestyle choices that they chose and their job facilitate their lifestyle. Why must a work hard and be rewarded comment be taken as purely monetary value?
A job should pay based on skill, responsibility and performance
I don't agree it is possible to simply up the wages and pay people more.

Pay for company directors should be capped if the lowest paid workers are eligible for tax credits.

Yep. I absolutely love this.

I agree that nmw needs to rise, housing needs to be built, and on a separate note, someone needs to kick the education into focus and get rid of all the ridiculous tests. Continuing to cut benefits helps nobody.

Very few hearing impaired people are getting PIP. But most who applied, got DLA. Their disabilities haven't gone away but the new guidelines were drafted so amateurishly, that many disabled people are not hitting the narrow criteria.

There was nothing "amateur" about it. It was a cold calculated move to drop the number of people receiving assistance for disabilities, regardless of their needs.

I think its a good idea. I recentl got turned down for jsa after leaving my job to relocate out of london to save money. I had been working 20 hours a week for the last two years but I hadn't paid enough tax contributions. So where did the tax i had paid for the ten years prior to having a baby go??. I have now found a full time job so will be paying more tax again. Why should other people work hard to fund their lives when some people claim benefits and have a free house when they have never worked. And for what it's worth my dp and I have worked hard for the jobs we do today and we have debts to pay so we are still skint every month. That's our fault so I don't expect to be bailed out.

I believe if you get up and go to work each day and do any job you are working harder than someone who doesn't (For the sake of clarity I mean someone of working age and ability) so yes, that person who goes to work and works hard should be rewarded.

But they're not rewarding those that work hard, they're taking away from those that are worse off. If they truly wanted to reward those that work hard, they would up minimum wage.

Look, it's simple. The Poverty Gap is widening. The Benefit Gap is growing we need some miracles:

1. Those that have shall give, willingly
2. Those that don't wake up one morning and decide to: give, work, work more, stop dossing around, moaning about it but doing nothing, make real changes, stop pretending - take your pick!
3. Gov.UK changes dramatically and chooses to stop pissing money away of fast trains, overseas investment, enquiries into bellybutton fluff, *choose/add your own
4. UK employers remember that without the workers they have no business
5. UK working population remembers that unions once did a fucking good job for them!
6. UK Unions remember that their real job is to support working people, whoever, wherever, however!
7. UK population as a whole needs to stop and think... what kind of society do I really want to live in? Can I be arsed to actively work/fight/campaign for that?

When all of those pigs reach cruising altitude we might have a hope of making changes that mean something.

Until then Peter shall continue to rob Paul and cry "Lazy Scum" when Paul objects! And Paul shall continue to inists that benefits are his by right!

Both are wrong. Both need to change!

Do we need a real revolution?

As someone who is affected by the cap I'd like to say something.

The main people hitting the cap are single mothers who don't work with 3 or more children. It's ideological because people still believe that the only way they ended up like this is breeding for money. They ignore all the women who've been left by husbands, left abusive relationships and/or been widowed. I don't know one woman who and had children for money. I know plenty who had children thinking their partners would be there to support them long term and now aren't.

Some of the ignorance on this thread is shocking.

A start would be to have a higher tax threshold so that no-one (kids or not) pays tax on a salary of less than £20k per year. Scrap tax credits completely. Madness to take money off people then need to pay to administer paying it back!

Yes, I personally think we do need a real revolution.

And whoever said we have no excuse for not working

Yes 15 hours free childcare when your child is 2. Your fucked if you have a baby. And then you have to find the non-existent childcare. And a job which doesn't require you to work short notice/zero hours, which is a bastard to claim WTC for.

Oh for it to be so simple.

That's a great idea Nathan, except some of us rely on tax credits just to survive.

I'd love a world where tax credits were not needed just so a family can pay exorbitant rents. Until employers pay more or a Govt tackles the appalling housing crisis then tax credits will be needed.

Alfie you wouldn't need tax credits if you paid far less tax.

A start would be to have a higher tax threshold so that no-one (kids or not) pays tax on a salary of less than £20k per year.

A great way of weaning the country off of tax credits.

The main people hitting the cap are single mothers who don't work with 3 or more children. It's ideological because people still believe that the only way they ended up like this is breeding for money. They ignore all the women who've been left by husbands, left abusive relationships and/or been widowed. I don't know one woman who and had children for money. I know plenty who had children thinking their partners would be there to support them long term and now aren't.

This. Absolutely this.

It's not taxing people then giving some of it back. Many people in receipt of tax credits pay little or no income tax and receive hundreds of pounds a month in tax credits or more.

I have several close relatives with large families (4+ DCs) who receive, or have received in the past before the cuts over the past couple of years, more per month than I do working full time earning £35-40k, while either not working at all, or working the minimum amount to maximise their tax credits entitlement (16 or 24 hours a week).

Where we are, in the north of England, £30k+ pa is nowhere near poor, it is very much an above average income. One family owned their house outright and another had a council property with low rent (around £400-500 pm) so had fairly comfortable lifestyles.

It is crazy that tax credits topped people up to the equivalent of a professional salary while not working or working a couple of shifts a week in a local job.