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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

New £23k Benefit Cap.

1001 replies

legotits · 07/11/2016 12:52

AIBU to ask if anyone still supports this?

Which families is this targeted at?

Anyone who will be affected, is it even feasible to not be pushed into debt?

OP posts:
PortiaCastis · 07/11/2016 19:45

Point is all these cuts are being overshadowed by bloody Trump and Brexit. Moot point if people are homeless can they vote???

Graphista · 07/11/2016 19:46

Revealall that was me. The figure was based on 40 hr working week living in Dover. But housing benefit/council tax benefit differs by council areas I know though it shouldn't differ THAT much.

Graphista · 07/11/2016 19:49

The homeless have a legal right to vote but understandably their focus is on getting by plus a lot of homeless are mentally ill or suffer from minor disabilities which affect their thinking so can't get organised enough to vote. Then you consider how many 'normal' people don't vote.

SillySongsWithLarry · 07/11/2016 19:50

No one seems to have considered that the cap is the absolute maximum a benefit claimant can receive. Most will be getting far less. I have the sense and compassion to be scared shitless of losing my job because the reality of a life on benefits isn't at all what the media would have you believe.

PortiaCastis · 07/11/2016 19:50

Some interesting figures

themoneycharity.org.uk/money-statistics/

Me2017 · 07/11/2016 19:52

It is a.always hard to square the circle of a kind welfare state system but still ensuring people have an incentive to work full time. Some of hte things the less well off come out with astound full time working parents many of us went back to work full time when we had very small babies indeed and we pay the tax to fund those who work less or don't work. Things regarded as indicative of not being a all well off are par for the course of many of us - I haven't been to a hair dresser for 2 years. I don't get any benefits. I drink just tap water etc etc.

As is rightly said the benefits cap applies in practice only in certain areas and there are I think two rates - London and outside so does not affect many on benefits but even so it is very popular indeed with full time working parents actually.

It is really good that people like I am who support the benefits cap and those who hate it are on the same thread communicating so we can understand each other's position even if we don't agree with it.

The good news is that the UK is now doing better as regards employment. I have started even seeing adverts in shops for jobs availability. It will get easier I am sure for single parents to get full time jobs.

I support the comments above that we should perhaps move to the continental sbenefits system of a generous contributory system which is a cushion for you in the 3 months to a eyar after you are made redundant but with an expectation you return to full time work after that rather than a benefits for life non contributory system we seem to have ended up with which was never Berveridge's plan when the welfare state was set up but seem to have morphed into.

PortiaCastis · 07/11/2016 19:52

I just wondered about voting because if you don't have an address you don't have an MP

Unicorn1981 · 07/11/2016 19:53

Yes maternity allowance is only 26 weeks. But a mother with a 4 month old baby should not have to go back to work yet. I am a bit taken aback that on mums net others are saying to a woman with a 4 month old baby, just to go back to work.

Its not its for 39 weeks. I was on it. When mine ran out I got a job.

bikerlou · 07/11/2016 19:56

Don't you just have to work 16 hours to avoid the cap. As a single mum I worked from when my baby was 6 weeks old and didn't even qualify for benefits back then in the 80's. I heard something about free childcare also?
Not sure how it all works as I did all this years ago.

ItShouldHaveBeenJess · 07/11/2016 19:56

I've just listened to the Radio 4 programme - is it the same one mentioned earlier in the thread by a PP, who conveyed his contempt for the mother of three children?

brasty · 07/11/2016 19:56

Maternity allowance is 26 weeks. SMP is 39 weeks.

Unicorn1981 · 07/11/2016 19:56

Me2017 It is really good that people like I am who support the benefits cap and those who hate it are on the same thread communicating so we can understand each other's position even if we don't agree with it.

I agree, it has made me look at it from a bit of a dfferent viewpoint.

PortiaCastis · 07/11/2016 19:57

Oh lord people are put on workfare please look things up

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/28/help-to-work-britains-jobless-forced-workfare-unemployed

Unicorn1981 · 07/11/2016 19:58

I had MA and I was on it for a year. It took into account how long I'd worked for before that. You have to have been working for 26 of the previous year or so to get it.

Unicorn1981 · 07/11/2016 20:00

Actually i have just realised 39 weeks isn't a year! I was definitely on it then on jsa for about a month and went back to work when my dd was one. And I had started it about 9 weeks before she was born. Maybe I was on it longer because I had worked for 10 years before that.

YelloDraw · 07/11/2016 20:03

I've just listened to the Radio 4 programme - is it the same one mentioned earlier in the thread by a PP, who conveyed his contempt for the mother of three children?

Do you mean me? I mentioned the radio 4 program but was trying to say it was a bad situation they were in. I was shocked that that mum+3 kids housed in 1 room were having to pay more than her HB entitlement to stay there. Like that woman said, how will she ever break the cycle and get out into more suitable housing.

PortiaCastis · 07/11/2016 20:04

So many assumptions misconceptions, and stereotyping do not help.
Benefits are capped at £20,000, that doesnt mean every claimant gets £20,000.

HelenaDove · 07/11/2016 20:05

house prices in the north west have risen by 6% this year ..............Dispatches on CH 4 now.

ItShouldHaveBeenJess · 07/11/2016 20:09

yello No, not you - it was a poster called shatner. And exactly that, how do you break the cycle? The people on here who think a life on benefits is 'easy' are deluded. Of course, they can always quit their jobs and find out for themselves, but none of them seem willing to try it, despite opening about what a 'desirable lifestyle choice' it is.

ItShouldHaveBeenJess · 07/11/2016 20:10

Opining, not opening!

SnipSnipMrBurgess · 07/11/2016 20:12

Ive always thought this was a great quote by Louis C.K. and think it applies here too.

“The only time you look in your neighbor's bowl is to make sure that they have enough. You don't look in your neighbor's bowl to see if you have as much as them.”

Again, if you think a life on benefits is so great and they are so easy to get, then go right ahead and see how you get on.

legotits · 07/11/2016 20:13

I only work part time, I got ill some years ago and it's still lingering.
I get by, my DC work now and I earn just enough to manage.
If I have a bad week and need cash I work extra shifts.
I don't get any benefits not even child benefit.

Tis crap money too.
But I'm envied because I have a job where I can be ill around it.

I consider myself fortunate too.

OP posts:
PaniWahine · 07/11/2016 20:17

SnipSnipMrBurgess
Jobseekers benefit for two qualified adults plus three kids is €403 per week; that excludes the €96 weekly that encompasses their child benefit which brings their weekly income to €500 per week. From that they pay €30 towards their rent. Our utilities are €23 per week (gas, electric, broadband), so being generous say €35 for them. That leaves €435 for food, healthcare, clothing, and social expenses a week is very generous. It's certainly a lot more than we get left over after working full time, paying our housing costs et, college fees, and health costs due to chronic illness.

A PP asked what's the point in reducing benefits to the point of existence; by motivating/forcing people to work its twofold. Firstly it's giving them a sense of pride and respect for an honest day's toil, and enabling them to contribute to society (yes raising kids is contributing but many parents work too - which PP Jw35 thinks should be optional but isn't!). Secondly it's showing their children that if you want something, you work for it - the taxpayer shouldn't and won't give it to you for free.

I do wish the disabled were treated with more compassion. Removing job supports, like those mentioned for the deaf PIP, is wrong. I can only hope funding may be diverted there in the future.

I don't agree with selling social housing to in situ tenants. It's a taxpayers asset and should be retained for its purpose, not sold off at discount. I know of one person who availed of the scheme, sold it a few years later to a family member, and within five years was back looking for a house and got it!

Jw35 The stay at home choice is no longer possible for single mums or couples on a low income. There's something wrong with that IMO
The choice is available provided you fund it yourself. The taxpayer should not be required to support an individual's decisions in life.

The disappearing parent desperately needs tackling; collect it with taxes, and the priority when calculating needs to be the cost of feeding, housing and clothing the children. Why should the resident parent go without so the NRP live the life of Riley? The Revenue and CMS need their heads knocking together Australia and NZ have data matched and collected at source for decades, and they prevent travel abroad if you're behind.

Too many blame others for their circumstances. Why didn't people gain qualifications when they were younger? Why aren't they studying now?

Those baying for rents to come down and giving out to private landlords. Yes the rents are often too high, but equally there are options. Move to somewhere cheaper. Yes it might be miles away, but there are cheap areas in the U.K. If you want to live in a metropolitan area, you'll need to pay for it. The costs of land and materials drive the costs of building homes, and unless the government is going to swoop in and provide funding for all the homes needed, there is a place for private landlords. They are not and cannot be expected to be a charity. So again it falls to if you want to live in a particular location - whether it's for family connections or whatever - you either need to pay up or move out. I don't see why there should be social housing in Westminster, Chelsea, or any central city location.

PAYG utility meters should be on equal rates as bill pay; they get the money upfront, so collection costs are minimal.

I'm not talking from a place of ignorance. My parents split when I was ten, I lived in social housing and my mother claimed benefits.

cannotseeanend · 07/11/2016 20:17

Oh Me2017 I think you've got it completely, that it's not just the unemployed, the working poor, but the working not so poor but still struggling can all struggle to afford hair cuts and clothes never mind holidays!!!

Huge own goal to the UK that for decades we have allowed the welfare system to give pay rises to those who produce more children, whilst those not entitled to child tax credit higher amounts receive no pay rise when they produce more children and therefore have to think hard first before producing them. And many other things too that the UK's welfare system encourages. It encourages basically people not to work and rely on the state.

Many EU countries have been far wiser than the UK. They have a welfare system which is CONTRIBUTORY in nature. Are Romanians currently migrating in 100,000s towards the UK or Germany? I can tell you the facts, they are migrating towards the country which pays them IS after a small wait and immediately tax credits if they do the minimum 16 hours a week. And after 3 years, they now can get social housing. Was it last week, the admission that 30% of new social housing now goes to new migrants? Leaving millions of long established UK residents waiting. Another UK own goal, for changing it from queuing to fighting over the special needs of candidates and with the low skilled migrants arriving now, they bring more special needs and go to the front of the queue. It is a lot or valid resentment for those who've been in that housing queue an awful lot longer. And lack of social housing. Another UK own goal. Selling off social housing without replacing it.

Sorry lots of waffle there, but it comes down to it not being fair that far too many people are able to either not work or play the system to work the minimum 16 hours for maximum benefits, that absent parents don't pay for their kids - another UK own goal, compare other EU countries with 50/50 care as the norm and high rates of chasing up absent parents for the ones who opt out of 50/50 care. It's not bloody fair, so many things not fair. Expecting full time working families to subsidise families choosing not to work, I don't know how anyone can even think of defending it.

The cap is good. For me it should be a gradual introduction covering also those on child tax credits, so that those already with 3+ kids the kids to not suffer too much, but that in future no-one should get more for having more kids.

PortiaCastis · 07/11/2016 20:18

Prices are rising down here as well Helena

www.home.co.uk/guides/house_prices_report.htm?county=cornwall&lastyear=1

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