To think you don't see many people with Down's syndrome anymore?

[Neonoen]

When I was a school there was a boy with downs syndome in my class. At secondary there was the first boy and then another one too.

I worked with a man with Downs syndrome at my first job (he taught me how to use the photocopier the first day after I wasted a whole reem of paper ). At the same time there was a woman who travelled on the same bus as me with Down syndrome and another who worked in McDonald's.

Yesterday on the TV they were interviewing that man who has the lead role in a new film (he has downs). DS asked why he spoke like that, I explained and then realised none of my children know what Down's syndrome is or have ever encountered anybody with it. There's no children with downs in their schools, no families with any members who have downs and no businesses that I can think of who employ anybody locally with Down's syndrome.

Other than the SN session at the local pool, I can't remember when I last encountered anybody with downs.

Is it just me? Is it a result of advanced ante natal testing?

In fact thinking of it I'm surprised at the lack of any experience my DC have of people with disabilities.

I really don't want to offend with this and hope I've used the correct terminology.

There was a girl with DS at my dc's primary - I think she went on to a special school. I think most kids with DS go to SN secondaries and maybe some to residential schools so you don't see them around. Possibly to do with antenatal testing too. I can't remember seeing DS children around much when younger too - they would've never been integrated into society in the 70s/80s.

Having worked directly with DS children I would definitely terminate for downs.

Jesus.

x2boys I'm glad you managed to have a happy life inspire of having challenging circumstances. Unfortunately not everyone is as able to cope and therefore should not be judged so negatively.

But hopefully if the 93% figure is true the disease is gradually dying out. I'm sure we can all agree that in an ideal world there would be nobody suffering from it.

It doesn't work like that. Down syndrome is caused (mainly) when cells divide. When a cell divides it duplicates its chromosomes then packs half of them into one daughter cell and half into another. If this goes wrong then you get one daughter cell with one copy and one with three. It's not (in the main, there are very rare types which are) passed on - most cases arise spontaneously
You can only 'wipe out' a condition genetically by breeding a gene out of a population. You can't do that with a trisomy because it's an error of cell division, not a single gene disorder.

Antenatal testing and possible termination is NOT incompatible with respect for all those who are born. Terminating because you're told your baby will likely die at birth due to grave heart defects does not make you some kind of monster who wishes all DS children be wiped from the earth.

Apparently the whole thread is going to be deleted

Who does that warrant a "Jesus" nothingmorethanfelines? That poster will have a good understanding of the spectrum of disability that someone with Down's Syndrome can have, and would choose not to bring up a baby with it. Why does the fact that the poster has worked with people with the condition make it shocking? It doesn't tell you anything about how she feels about the people she cares for.

i,m not judging anyone just sick of the comments on here mainly from people who have no idea what its like to live with a child with disabillities but assume that we must all have terrible lives because of it i,m just pointing out that whilst most people wouldnt choose to be the parent of a child with disabillities most of us do cope and even though my child isnt high functioning he has a very happy life and is a very much loved part of the family.

Quite right x2boys.

I know I got flamed on this thread, but some of the ignorance is really breathtaking. Decisions about continuing pregnancies are taken on the basis of that ignorance.

I find it scary.

I do not assume the parents of children with DS have terrible lives. I know people with children with DS and their lives are not terrible. I would still choose to have an abortion if I found out in pregnancy. This is for reasons personal to me and my experiences with family with DS and professionally. I admit I don't know what it's like to have a child with disabilities but that doesn't stop me from making what I think is the right decision for me and my family. That's all we can do- try and make the choices we feel are best.

gratefully, you got flamed because you called abortion "killing babies". Please be honest about that at least

I have a child with problems. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It has impacted badly on our other children and us.

You can be as informed about a condition as you like but if no one can tell you how far along the spectrum your unborn child is going to be I don't see ignorance in termination. What i I see is unwillingness to take a risk on the worse case scenario playing out in their own personal situation under their own set of circumstances. Not what's best in yours or anyone elses.

And, while we wait for the thread to get zapped:

after ''we're talking about killing babies with downs''

and then the gem:

don't think that because you terminated your baby with downs you won't end up with something worse.

i think it's rich to talk about other people's ignorance.

1 in every 150-200 babies are born with rare chromosome disorders [according to UNIQUE] children with rare chropmosome disorders like down syndrome can have very mild symptons of their disorder right up to severe disabillities these are not generally tested for prenatally however people make their own choices about wether to continue with pregnancies for whatever reason but like my sons rare chromosme disorder many are not diagnosed untill well after birth my son was three and a half, testing doesnt test for everything i,m not judging anyone for their choices but many disabillities are not apparent untill a child is much older.

It's 93% of COUPLES not just women who CHOOSE to have he testing and discover their baby has Down syndrome.
It doesn't account for those who choose not to have the testing. Some couples don't want to know so that they don't have to make the choice.
I didn't have the testing with my first but after working with a young boy who had downs I decided for my second child I would test. This was he not to his lovely character and his ability to make everyone laugh and the new skills he learnt each day.... no, it was because he spent most of his life in and out of hospital, constantly ill, in pain, struggling and it was heartbreaking to see him in so much pain and unhappy. It doesn't necessarily mean I would have terminated had my child had Down syndrome, but more so I could be aware of the road we could be facing

Why would the thread get zapped?

Further to my comment about terminating for my condition, yes I know that any other condition is possible. That is exactly why I would terminate/screen IVF if the circumstances arose, I would not wish my condition on anyone, let alone garunteeing they had this condition plus the population wide risk of another

. It is completely different talking about terminating to talking about children that already exist, the two don't equate, /@ terminating does not mean you are saying a child with a condition shouldn't be alive, just that you wouldn't want them to suffer if you could do something about it.

My friend was diagnosed through amnio, decided to keep her baby with downs. A week later she found out her babyin uteri had died due to the massive heart problems associated.

There is a lovely little boy in my daughters main stream class at school with DS, they all love him and accept him entirely x

I'mmoving but with downs you can terminate right up to birth, which in my mind is very different from terminating a pregnancy that isn't yet viable outside the womb. I fully agree that women should be given the option of terminating for downs, but I was shocked to find out that I could terminate my pregnancy at any stage.

It's horrific and the law should be changed - but I wonder whether any doctor would actually be prepared to do this.

Doesn't the fact you CAN do this indicate to some that Down's can be an extremely serious condition, or do you think the law stipulates that people terminate at 38 weeks because it isn't pretty?

Well I am very pleased the birth mother of my daughter didn't know of her disability until after birth and terminate her. My daughter has many challenges to overcome, she has complex needs ( she does not have DS but another chromosomal disabilities) but she is a true inspiration and an amazing human being. Yes it is very difficult caring for her, but I would never have aborted her, I wouldn't want to be without her and would not want her any other way - she is who she is and she has a great life.
Some comments on here horrify me with the generalisations and inaccurate beliefs when you consider we are in 2016 and acceptance and inclusion is supposed to be widespread.

I will also say that people don't want an 'imperfect' child who may have needs, or may be difficult to care for so abort ..... when one of my 'perfect' sons hit secondary school age his whole personality changed, he got in with the 'wrong crowd' and the heartache, stress and the impact on the family that he caused was much greater than the impact my daughter ever has and she will never live independently and requires 24 hour care...

ImAMoving thank you for your post - that's exactly how I feel. Not wanting children to be born with severe or life-limiting disabilities when there's an option to avoid it is not in any way a judgement of existing children and adults with the disability, or their worth, or their right to life, but a judgement of the disability itself.

If any of us here on this thread had been terminated in utero, for any reason at all, none of us would care, because we never would have existed. When a pregnancy is terminated, it's a decision about one woman and one pregnancy, not a sweeping judgement on everyone else who is alive. Can you imagine a SP documentary where someone with non-disabled children went around showing women who had terminated pregnancies where no disabilities were detected, showing them their own happy children, and asking them whether they want children to exist in the world at all? It's manipulative nonsense.

archery exactly. If my condition could have been detectable and my mum had terminated I wouldn't care less as I wouldn't be here. But my mum can't see that as she now equates it with saying my life isn't worth it. And believe me I feel like that a lot if the time. If you ask those with my condition wth children about having children/passing it on they all say it's fine as they equate it with not wishing their children to be alive, bit those not yet with children say they don't want to pass it on as they can look at it without feeling like they are going against the life and life preserving instinct for their child.

Doesn't the fact you CAN do this indicate to some that Down's can be an extremely serious condition, or do you think the law stipulates that people terminate at 38 weeks because it isn't pretty?

Would you consider cleft palate a condition so serious that it justifies terminating a pregnancy at full term? Because that's also legal at the moment.

I feel particularly strongly about this issue because my DD was born at 34 weeks and was clearly already a little person, and she was still pre-term by the time we took her home from hospital.

yes Felines a cleft can be much more serious than you think