Aibu not to let four year old go to America with ex

[ZombieLauraIngalls]

Not me, but my sister .

Dsis has recently split with her partner. They have a little girl aged 4. They have never actually lived together, as Dsis was very young when she got pregnant and was focused (rightly so, in my opinion) on finishing university and raising DN.

I'm going to come right out and say I think her ex is a bastard. He would go weeks at a time without seeing DN or sis. He hasn't paid a penny. He was also EA - sis hasn't said much, but I spotted quite a few red flags at times

Anyway, ex has a new girlfriend who is obsessed with Disney. They have been together about five months and she paid for him to come on a prebooked holiday to Disney Orlando at the end of summer. She goes every year. She seems nice enough, but as it's early days, he's obviously trying to impress her as Dad of the Year.

Dsis is always chasing him to spend time with DN, but all of a sudden he's sending her texts at 3am saying things like "you can't keep me from DN any longer, I want full custody" etc etc.

Dsis and DN are staying with me for a few days, and this is the corker she got yesterday. This from a man who has never,in four years, had his daughter overnight, or for more than six hours in a row, by his own choice

"just to let you know, I will be taking DN to Disney for 11 days in March. could you make sure her passport is up to date for then."

Well bloody hell. Sis text back

"sorry ex, but this is something we really need to discuss first, I'll speak to you about it when you next pick up DN"

Ex wrote back a whole rigmarole

"you don't get to decide where DN goes or who she spends time with. You don't get the veto over her. You're denying her a fantastic chance because you are jealous of gf"

At this point Dsis was in tears, I took the phone off her and I'm keeping it until the end of today with her agreement, as we have a nice day planned and he will just text her constantly and she'll be miserable

He would rather cut his hand off than spend 11 days with DN,I'm pretty sure he is bullshitting, but my sister is getting herself worked up, thinking she's going to have to let DN go- she's never spent a whole night away from her before!

So is Dsis BU to not let DN go?

If he does "lose the remnants of interest" in your dn, is this really such a bad thing? He sounds like such a waste of space - paying him to spend time with his child. Hopefully your dsis will be able to find more appropriate father figures, I don't necessarily mean a new partner. Perhaps a friend, uncle neighbour etc.

PPs are right. I'm a family lawyer. I'd advise her to write along the following lines. Don't get drawn into a tit for tat, cut through the nastiness and concentrate on what's best for your DN which is to have a meaningful relationship with her DF - if he belatedly wants this then she should encourage it and take the wind out of his sails. He has to prove himself and DN has to get used to spending more time with him. If she can write a sensible proposal there's no need for legal advice at this stage. It's a criminal offence for him to take her abroad without DSIS's consent:

Dear X,
I refer to your recent texts about taking DD on holiday in March.
It is important to record that I have always been fully supportive of DD's relationship with you. You are her father. However, it is also important to record that DD's contact with you has, at your own election, been sporadic and limited. She has never spent a single night in your care, or even a full day. The most she has spent with you is 6 hours. There have been times when you have gone for weeks without seeing her. Throughout the 4 years since she was born, I have tried time and again to encourage you to spend more time with her and to agree a regular schedule of contact, including full days and overnight stays, but you have declined.

If you now wish to start having her for overnight stays and holidays, then I welcome and will support that. However, in view of your limited contact with her over the last 4 years, I cannot possibly agree to an 11 day holiday abroad without first building up your contact with her at a pace which is appropriate for her. Wanting to agree a lengthy holiday abroad before addressing that is putting the cart before the horse. You need to put her needs first, over and above your own wishes. I agree that, in principle, a trip to Disney would be lovely for her, but we need to build up to this.

What I propose is that we agree and implement an ongoing schedule of contact, aimed at building up your contact with DD. Only when that has been successfully introduced over a reasonable period can we consider extended holiday periods. I suggest the following:
[your DSIS has to think about what she wants - bog standard is alternate weekends and a midweek night, but this DD is young and hasn't had any overnights yet, so there should be a proposal to build it up over a period of time - eg for first 4-6 weeks he has her for a full day every Saturday (or maybe 3 out of every 4 Saturdays if your DSIS wants a whole weekend). Then you start introducing an overnight every other visit with her coming back in the morning for a few weeks. Then when she's used to that you move to full weekends. when that has been successfully introduced over, say, 8 weeks, then you move to a more conventional alternate weekends, Friday and Saturday night, then additional nights during the holidays (starting with 2/3 nights and building that up). When you move to alternative weekends, with young children you want to avoid a fortnight without her seeing her DF, so if his work schedule allows add in midweeks, first of all visiting and then overnight. What your DSIS needs to do is draw up a comprehensive plan to build up contact over a period of months (with the caveat that as they move through each phase, it has to be on condition that it is working and DD is coping - any proposed schedule must therefore be subject to review).

Then at the end say:
It is premature to agree to an 11 day holiday in 6 months' time without addressing these issues and contact in general. If we concentrate on building up contact over the next few months, I will support you having more extended regular holiday contact, and would be happy for you to take her abroad. But I really think that this March will be too soon. If we concentrate on building everything up over the next year, perhaps you might be able to take her the following year.

Now that you want to show a greater commitment to DD, it is also time that we discussed maintenance, which of course you have never paid [has he?]. There is an easy on-line calculator that you can use to calculate what you should be paying (google child maintenance calculator), or you could telephone the CMS who will calculate it for you.

Please let us not get involved in any silliness with accusations that I am jealous of your girlfriend and threats of court applications. This is about DD, not you or me.

Just an afterthought: does he have accommodation which is appropriate for DD? The letter might need to say something about that. If there have been difficulties with the 6 hours you might also want to mention that (eg does she come back unfed or complaining that daddy gave her food she didn't like - you might want to add in a non-patronising way that this is learning curve for both him and the child, he needs to learn about her likes and dislikes and her day to day needs and routine (her favourite toy/TV program/bedtime story, what comforts her when she is upset, what food she likes and so on) , and she needs to learn to be comfortable spending extended periods away from your DSIS who has always been her primary carer and from whom she has never spent a single night away....

He's an arsehole.

Look at it this way would she allow anyone else who'd never looked after her daughter overnight take her abroad on holiday? Doesn't really matter that he's biologically her father, by the sounds of it he hasn't done any parenting.

If your sister was comfortable with it she could try to set up one night a week that dad of the year looks after her daughter then when he doesn't bother his arse it's him in the wrong and not her iyswim?

I'm perhaps being over-sensitive and projecting here but my heart bleeds for the (usually) mothers and the small children who are confronted with this kind of thing.

My own DD would have been absolutely traumatised to have been suddenly taken away from me when she was only 4. And god knows how I would have coped.

What an absolutely shit thing to do to two human beings, one of whom is his own daughter. Bastard.

Nothing useful to add but shallichangemyname's letter seems a very good way to approach it.

Your poor sister.

I like Edmunds idea too.

Great letter shalli has drafted there.
She should definitely send that out to him.
He'll shit himself.
I would also add to the letter than as he doesn't pay maintenance you cannot afford to get her passport updated but if he wants it done then you will do it based on a bank transfer or cash given over, once contact has become more regular.
You do NOT want him having the passport sent to his address and then him having it.

Thank you shall that is a brilliant letter.

I've shown Dsis and she's feeling a lot better and will be getting legal advice asap

Thank you all- fantastic support from the vipers

Rebecca I agree - I think 4 is really pushing it to be away from the main caregiver, even with a dad who is more hands on than DN's

But as long as he gets to play the big swinging dick in front of his gf.....

It's totally pushing it. My dds (8 and 4) would struggle hugely to be away from me for 11 days in another country, and DH and I aren't separated and he's a very active father. But they would just hate to be away from me for so long even within.

I know offering regular overnights and more contact is the 'proper' and mature way to handle this, in that it proves you are working to establish and improve the relationship between a child and their semi-estranged parent, and that the best case scenario is that it will help things, in the long run.

But I have a 3.5yr-old and I hate hate hate the idea of her spending the night with an indifferent parent who doesn't actually have any natural inclination to care for her, and who's doing it to prove a point, and I'd do anything rather than put her in that position. Kids sense when they're not wanted, and it's a wretched feeling.

The holiday idea is so ludicrous, given the situation, that I'd struggle to even respond. Does the GF have kids/frinds who will be coming along? Does she know that she'll be going on the more exciting rides alone, since her boyfriend will have to sit it out with his DD? Does she know how much less ground you can cover and how often you need to stop with a small child with you?

Nope. No way would I let him.
He sounds like a dick and practically a stranger to your niece so completely unfair on her.

Whilst I'm sure Disneyland would be amazing I wouldn't let her go.

Whilst I'm sure Disneyland would be amazing I wouldn't let her go.

The issue is, I'm sure her daughter would love it - for the first day. As soon as night came, and she realises she's not going to see mummy for ages (which it is for a little girl), there's a good chance she will become inconsolable. What is her dad going to do then? It's not a case of putting her in the car and taking her back home. He hasn't actually thought this through at all, he seems to think kids and Disney = perfectly behaved, 'Disney children'. Not to talk about the fact she'll need constant supervision, lots of playing up to the characters, no going on big rides, her being exhausted, possibly need carrying.... he has no idea has he.

Edmund

He's an idiot. End off.
Disney does not solve being a shitty dad and I agree with everything you said.

All fun and games until she realises mummy isn't there and she's stuck with her dad for another 10 days

You've had fantastic advice here.

I'm sure his new gf is THRILLED at the idea of her lovely new boyfriend springing a 4 year old on her trip to Disney, btw. I wonder if she even knows about this sudden spate of interest?

This from a man who has never,in four years, had his daughter overnight, or for more than six hours in a row, by his own choice

This clinches it for me. I'd be saying over my dead body, and he's welcome to go to court.

I presume sister has her daughter's passport somewhere safe?

If we concentrate on building up contact over the next few months, I will support you having more extended regular holiday contact, and would be happy for you to take her abroad

Exactly what I said to my ex a year ago. Funnily enough nothing happened and this year he hasn't mentioned a holiday at all....

Yes I'm not sure if he actually wants it, or whether he just wants to make a point.

What a knob, using his daughter as a prop like that.

Why hasn't your sister taken him to CSA? OP? Sorry if you've already said...

It's a literal Disney dad