to think that the IB is not worth the extra work, and DS should just stick with A levels?

[YetiBetty]

Firstly, this will be DS' decision, not mine, and we will support him whatever. However, our local 6th form college offers the IB and he is pretty set on taking it next year.

My thoughts are - why give yourself more work to do? I think that the IB does help with skills prior to university, but most students going to uni won't have done it so he won't be at a massive disadvantage by not taking it.

If he does take the IB, he'll have to continue with a language (and he's always moaned about his language GCSE), plus maths which he is good at but does not enjoy). I get that he still gets to do four subjects he DOES enjoy, rather than just the three he could do at A level, but I am just unconvinced that it makes the whole thing worth it.

What do you think? Is the IB lots more work? Is the work worth the kudos and the additional skills?

So it offers breadth of education over depth?

The Scottish system is like that. That's why our degree courses are normally a year longer than our English counterparts

Breadth over depth - sort of. The IB students cover more subjects but their Higher levels subjects are more or less equivalent to A Levels in terms of depth. So it's as if they gain three A Levels and three AS Levels at the end of it all.

And extended essay and TOK means in general IB students are perceived by universities as more able to manage and organise workloads and deadlines and have a lower drop out rate. Oxford, I believe, published research on this recently.

I've frequently found IB students to be streets ahead in critical thinking and the nature of the diploma means they are well-read and less rigidly 'science' or 'arts.'

I did the European Bacc which is even broader than the IB (trust me, most people haven't heard of it). It suited me extremely well as it had such a broad scope but it was hell for people who struggled in any area. I think it's helped me as you need broader skills at work and it also means that I am comfortable in more than one language.

With the way the world is going, it's good to have options - languages are particularly invaluable - but if it's going to be misery for him, better off with A levels, I'd say!

Good grief. Which decade/century are you posting from? Try googling "liberal arts degree" - it's offered by Warwick, Durham, Bristol, KCL, Exeter, SOAS...
Yes and liberal arts degrees are the butt of many jokes there.Would you like fries with that?

My DDs school started to offer this when she went into 6th form 7 years ago. It is a church state school with an excellent academic record, regularly high up in The Times top 100 stare schools. The IB stream was the elite, the creme de la creme.

For whatever reason it did not go well. I don't know if it is intrinsically harder than A levels or if the staff weren't used to teaching it or if it is just a different style of study, but the pass rates were poor. Worse than that was the pressure it seemed to put on the girls studying it. DD (who happily had opted for A levels) would come home with stories of IB students sobbing in class or breaking down in the common room because of the sheer volume of work they had to do. Admittedly this is a high pressure girls school where high emotion and melodrama are standard but the IB girls did seem to have it harder. At the end of Year 12 several girls left the school to start again with A levels elsewhere. When DD2 entered the same 6th form three years later IB was no longer offered.

I think the IB could be good for an all rounder who is unsure what they will want to study at Uni but only if the school/ college had experience of teaching it and a history of good results.

I did IB and would say to go for A levels every time.

yes saying all that about the IB - which suited me and allowed me to walk into all 5 of the unis I applied to inc Cambridge (years ago of course) - I suspect I will be advising my eldest, who is at a school that offers both, to do A levels. Purely because I dont think he has the multi-tasking skills or attention span that I did to do it :)

I had no choice as it was all that was offered. The academic types all got in the high 30s up to 44 in my year, but I do remember there was a huge drop then to the kids who weren't academic and had been forced to do it and who got in the mid twenties, which would have been pretty useless i'd have thought.

It's a LOT of work. It is excellent preparation for a demanding degree course, however; if I'm perfectly honest, my 3 A Levels weren't especially challenging and I coasted through the sixth form, only to get a nasty shock at university. I wish that I had done either 4 A Levels or the IB, and developed a better work ethic before starting at uni.

I didn't go to school in the UK, but I did the IB and I loved it. I think it is a great approach to education, that is is a valuable pursuit in and of itself rather than just a hurdle to get into uni.

My HL Chemistry put me above the level of the first year Uni classes when I studied Engineering.

A-levels are neither especially deep or broad. But they suit the rather academically unambiguous English school culture. The IB diploma course offers more breadth and a different perspective to A-levels and is a good option for pupils who might find A-levels lacking in challenge.

My ds is taking the IB and it is a huge amount of work - he has zero free periods. I do think the extended essay is good preparation for university. DS is a good all rounder (all A*s at IGCSE), speaks fluent German and already had 2 ASs (at grade A, taken in year 11) when he started the IB. His experience with IB:

• huge demand on free time with regard to the CAS requirements
• Higher level maths is very hard - he had already take the AS, but says if you are coming straight from iGCSE maths you won't manage HL maths.
• not keen on TOK
• Chemistry and Biology Higher level seem to be on a par with A level
• you need to be pretty self disciplined and organised - need to keep details of CAS activities and 'reflect' on what you have been doing on a regular basis

Like a poster above, I did the European Baccalaureate, even broader than the IB, 18 years ago. As a scientist who also liked some arts subjects, I'd have found the narrow curriculum with A levels frustrating.

I have found having studied a broader range of subjects useful ever since. It kept my options open for university, the essay writing from the arts subjects I took helped with writing project work and my dissertation as well as written reports ever since. I have a linguist friend who studied the European Bacc and has found it very useful that it forced her to keep studying some maths in being able to do a more numerate job.

On the other hand, my brother knew he wanted to be an engineer and wasnt interested, and wouldn't work at studying anything else. He did A levels instead, which suited him much better.

If your son is the type who loves breadth and will work at it it doesn't sound like a bad plan to me - the advantages last much further than university applications. If he isn't the type, I'd definitely encourage him to do A levels instead.

My DD got accepted by the United Word College system who founded the IB many years ago, and was one of 2 students from the UK who flew to Hong Kong to study in the International UWC college there. She finished her IB this year and is currently at university in the UK. Firstly, the IB is very very hard. Her lectures started at 7.30am till 1pm every day, then the afternoons were taken up with the CAS activities. She scored an excellent 38 and was accepted at every university she applied for. She got a bursery of 3k for academic achievement from the university she chose which will help fund her studies for the the Masters degree she is doing.

Did she find it hard....absolutely yes, especially studying with a lot of Chinese students who's academics outclass ours. Did she love it...yes! Do I think it put her in good stead for uni.....absolutely yes.....her CAS added so much to her uni applications, plus she is used to studying independently, writing a dissertation, managing her time etc. Would I encourage her to do with the benefit of hindsight...absolutely yes. Would I recommend it for my DS2....no, he is currently doing A Levels. He wouldn't have coped with the IB, and wouldn't have liked the studying of additional subjects that he has no interest in. My daughter learnt Mandarin and loved it, and her Science choice led to her end degree choice.

So, it all depends on your DS, but make sure he is under no illusions as to how hard it is. If he can make it through an IB then he will find a degree no problem.

Our TOK was great in the late 90s but the man who took it was amazing and seemed ever so slightly insane. Was also my higher level DT teacher though and those lessons were also a little odd and we were doing things that we weren't supposed to be but all aced the course.

I also did the IB years ago and I think I would have been bored rigid with the narrowness of doing A levels. I would have done just sciences at A level but the broadness of the Sian meant I had to keep up my languages - something I am very glad of now.

I wouldn't describe myself as a natural scholar but doing more subjects kept me interested. The CAS aspect was also great for making me do new things (and keeping me out of trouble!) I really really enjoyed the ToK and extended essay aspects which wouldn't have been offered at A level.

I had no problems applying to Unis a shave a Masters in a science subject.

Just to add (if you're still reading), I taught both A level and IB simultaneously and don't really agree that IB is a 'lighter touch' - it was at the same level. Most of the teachers had no training in delivering it but all were saying how great it is and how it assures better university places. This assertion was not based on fact, and simply isn't the case.
However, my son did enjoy the different, wider approach and felt that it gave him a broader perspective. He did get a first, but he would have done anyway had he done A levels.
Given that your son doesn't like two of the subjects, I would say it would be a mistake. I taught French IB by the way, and someone who is not enjoying languages at GCSE would really struggle on the IB.

He should make his own choice as the young adult that he is.

My parents didn't let me do the IB. Nor did they want me to take a gap year. I still wish I had done both those things over 20 years on.

I did IB not too long ago. It is harder, definitely, but I got a great result, very good university choices and managed to get a studentship to do postgraduate studies. If I could do it all again I would make the same choice and will definitely suggest to my kids to opt for IB.

Not to mention that the quality of the learning is higher so I spent the first two years of uni finding the courses very easy!