Tax credits horrible evil nasty people

[MidsummersNight]

Posting for traffic

For 3 consecutive years I've received overpayment letter after overpayment letter after overpayment letter. I always keep or records up to date, I overestimate on everything and work childcare costs out accurately.
Yet, I am owe them over £2000 for reasons nobody has managed to tell me yet. I'm paying it back £50 a month and I've just received ANOTHER overpayment letter. It's always random stupid amounts and I'm fucking sick of it.

Appeal letters are always met with rejection letters back from them, what is the next step? Who do I go to? Can I write to an MP or something because it's getting beyond a joke. I don't know anyone else who gets this much grief from them and it's making me ill.

It's all so disorganised by the sound of it The system is shit.

I have been comparatively lucky in my dealings with them. I was investigated twice, and both times I was cleared. When I changed my job a couple of years ago, I phoned them to say so. I spent 40 minutes on the phone and only at the end of that time did the advisor realise that as my new contract was only 20 hours, I wasn't entitled to TC. I had written to my MP after getting the letter from Concentrix, and she was crap (and since voted out!) and told me that she was unable to help, as this was how the system worked and I just had to believe in it; in the end they would get things right. I was lucky that things did go right for me, but I am pretty sure that even if I become eligible for TC again, I will not be claiming. It was far too stressful.

Anyone thinking that Concentrix losing their ocntract with HMRC for tax credits will mean a change of persons might want to read this..... let us hope Brexit means we can lose these employment rights called TUPE in due course which mean if you sack a poor company the poor staff are moved over to the new body doing the work!

" Concentrix tax credits staff in TUPE move to HMRC
The controversial tax credit contract outsourced to Concentrix, which has been slated by MPs for serious customer service failures, is being brought back in-house with immediate effect, with existing private sector staff transferring to work at HMRC in Belfast

In September, HMRC announced it would not be renewing the three-year contract when it formally ended in May next year, and has already said it is deploying 500 of its own staff on the contract for the reminder of the term, in a bid to clear a backlog of cases.

Now HMRC has confirmed that Concentrix staff, largely based in Belfast, will be transferred into HMRC.

An HMRC spokesperson said: ‘As the work previously carried out by Concentrix moves back to HMRC this means, under the protection of employment regulations, Concentrix staff carrying out the work assigned to the HMRC contract will automatically transfer to HMRC.

‘Concentrix has begun discussions with their staff about this transfer. Those people moving to HMRC will be supported through further training, building on the improvements already delivered to the service we provide to our tax credits customers.

‘This will provide permanent employment to Concentrix staff to help deliver our priorities, offering job security to them well beyond the scheduled expiry of the contract in May 2017.’

Concentrix’s handling of tax credit checks and renewals has attracted strong criticism. Last week Frank Field, chair of the work and pensions committee, said MPs had heard ‘extraordinary’ evidence regarding incorrect decisions to stop payments, while there was evidence of ‘appalling’ failures in customer service at the outsourcing company.

‘From Concentrix we saw a company desperately out of their depth and unable to deliver on the contract awarded to them by HMRC.

‘From senior HMRC officials we saw a palpable disregard for the human implications of this gross failure of public service. From the tax credit claimants we saw dignity in the face of appalling and traumatic experiences,’ Field said.

The committee heard that although Concentrix was supposed to deal with more than 90% of customer phone calls within a stipulated timeframe, its actual performance fell to consistently below 10%. There were also questions over the reliability of its checks, with some claimants wrongly denied payments and enduring hardship as a result.

HMRC said it was unable to give an indication of staff numbers likely to transfer from Concentrix, but stressed there would be no compulsory redundancies as a result of the move.

Mark Serwotka, general secretary of the Public and Commercial Services Union (PCS) said: The decision vindicates our long-standing campaign against the privatisation of this essential work, and recognises staff were not to blame for the failings of an immoral payment by results mechanism.

‘We're delighted HMRC has agreed with us this work is best carried out in-house and, crucially, has accepted our argument to protect the jobs of Concentrix staff by transferring them in to the department.

‘We will be pushing for these workers to be employed on the same terms as their HMRC colleagues.’"

Also I just read that a consultation on exceptions in the tax credit field is out if anyone wants to respond to it
www.gov.uk/government/consultations/universal-credit-and-child-tax-credit-exceptions-to-the-2-child-limit

Thankfully my recording was on there. In my complaint I listed things like " note, at 2mins 47s in, the advisor clearly states xyz" at 4mins note I state abc" etc.

Persistence, persistence. I know it's incredibly hard and stressful and doesn't always work but it's crucial.

I am currently repaying my last overpayment. Fortunately only £350 but it's one of many. It makes me so angry as I used to tell them about the smallest of changes, they are totally useless. Tbh, I'm thankful that my my fiancé has moved in, we are over the threshold for TC so I will never have to deal with them again!

I feel lucky that the figure they pulled out of a hat for me is only £700.

I'm paying it back a £5 a week. Tempted to send it to them in coppers

You will be longing for tax credits when uc comes in for us all unfortunately :(

They are cr*p.

My wife and I had problems with them a few years ago relating to her claims for tax credits before we got together. The first thing my wife received was notice of legal proceedings. We replied pointing out that they had not sent any previous communications concerning this alleged debt and that a Notice to Pay they had sent previously which related to a different (larger) amount had been paid in full. We asked for an apology for sending the notice of legal proceedings before sending anything else and asked for an explanation of the alleged overpayment.

Two months later we received a letter allegedly showing their calculations but no apology. This managed to state that, for one year, my wife was entitled to £8900 (roughly) and had received £8900, and that she had therefore been overpaid by £250! We wrote back pointing out this mistake and that other clear miscalculations meant that the alleged overpayment was only half the amount claimed. Their letter also revealed that they had recovered an earlier alleged overpayment by reducing payments for a subsequent year. We pointed out that my wife had not received any correspondence about this and that their actions appeared to be in breach of COP26 as it then stood - this said they would not ask for repayment of an overpayment if it arose due to their mistake and you reasonably thought their award was right. Taking all this into account we pointed out that they owed my wife money rather than the other way around and asked that they repay with interest. We also again asked for an apology for starting with a notice of legal proceedings.

We never heard from them again.

I had a letter fomra debt recovery firm the other day telling me I had defaulted on my repayments.........um no because THEY TAKE the money direct from my bank ( is that a standing over or a direct debit I never know?) So how can they say I haven't paid it?

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I phone use to them with every little change in income. When I worked, my job could vary from 10 hours one week to 60 the next. Every time I phoned they would say that it didn't matter, as it would be worked out in the next tax year or it didn't matter unless your income changed by £2500 either way. I said I didn't care, and I would keep phoning thanks, as then they wouldn't be able to say I didn't notify them.

I just bloody knew at some point we would be overpaid, and they didn't seem to understand that I wouldn't be able to afford to pay it back the following year. I always put some aside to pay them off, as I was always convinced we were getting too much.

In the "olden days" of Family Credit, there was a simple formula to work out what you should be getting (65p in the pound taken off for every pound you earned over x amount) but the problem with CTC and WTC is that no one seems to have any idea how it is worked out.

I got an extra payment a few weeks ago, so I phoned up to find out why. It's because my 16 year old is staying in education (obviously...it's the law). I have told them repeatedly since April that this was the case. I thought my 2016/17 award was already based on that, but apparently not 🙄. No doubt I will now have been overpaid.

I feel so sorry for the people on the phone. There seems to be no communication between departments, so they are in the frontline for all the frustrations that claimants have with the shitty system.

weveallkissedafrogor2 I've had that before from the council. If you don't have enough funds or your bank is experiencing technical issues then it will default. Check your statements and send a screen grab to show that either they've taken it or they didn't but the funds were there so their error.

I HATE tax credits, cannot wait to be rid of them!
We received a (small in comparison) overpayment last year through no fault of our own, they are taking the money back over 8 weeks which is around £80 a week!
We tried to appeal it but apparently they don't believe it will cause us financial hardship

Right, so I phoned HMRC this morning to get details of all my overpayments and the reasons for them.

I'm stunned at the response.

I said to the woman I spoke to that I have consistently kept my claim up to date and she admitted that yes her notes told her I have always updated my situation.

The problems came from me going from a joint to a single claim, then back to a joint shortly after DP and I got back together.
I told her during that time I phoned them the day he moved back to his parents and the day he moved back in.

She said yes, she could see all the updates I'd provided, but as "that's just the way the system works" I have to pay it back. She said it SHOULD be on a month by month basis, but as it's on a yearly basis I have to pay back THEIR mistake.

She's basically admitted it's the system fault but I'm still responsible for paying it back. Furious.

I've emailed my MP and included the Secretary for the DWP.

MidsummersNight
The reason for my over payment is the same - going from single to joint claim. None of which was my fault as I updated everything as I should.
They very clearly need to update their systems!
I hope you get somewhere with your MP

That to me makes absolutely no sense!

How is anyone supposed to stay in the exact same situation? Life doesn't work like that!

How sad that there are probably thousands of people with overpayments because of life changing as it does.

Cannot believe we have to pay overpayments due to a system fault when we've done absolutely nothing!

I have to pay back THEIR mistake

From COP26, "If we fail to meet our responsibilities, but you meet all of yours, we won’t ask you to pay back all of an overpayment caused by our failure". It goes on to say that you must tell them about any mistakes on your award notice within 30 days of the date on the notice.

It is worth taking a look at COP26. You can find it here. It may be that, as in my wife's case, tax credits staff are simply ignoring COP26 and demanding repayments when they shouldn't.

Note also from COP26 that after you notify them of a change of circumstances they should send a new award notice within 30 days. So the woman you spoke to who said that is the way the system works was talking rubbish. You notified them of changes. They failed to meet their responsibilities by sending out new award notices and adjusting your payments accordingly. It is therefore their failing. As far as I can see, under COP26 they have no right to demand return of any overpayment.

Just remembered that I appealed an overpayment a couple of years ago. They said I'd told them my earnings were a certain amount when I knew I definitely had told them a different amount. I requested a copy of the phone call recording. By the time they sent it to me the time period that I had to appeal by had lapsed so I still had to pay it. Oh and on the tape it clearly stated that I had told them my correct earnings So therefore it was their mistake. It's making my blood boil just typing this now!!!!

By the time they sent it to me the time period that I had to appeal by had lapsed so I still had to pay it

You could have applied for an extension. They cannot simply run you out of time like that.

The best £350 I have ever spent was to a specialist tax credits accountant who dealt with an issue where the advisers (not just the ones on the phone, compliance too) simply didn't understand the tax credits rules. I'd previously had a number of horrible conversations with incredibly rude people who told me I was wrong, that I was lying about my income etc etc.

Two letters from lovely accountant and - poof - it all went away. My only regret is that I didn't ask for an apology for their cock up and the way they had spoken to me.

You can complain about tax credits, the Adjudicator's Office will look at complaints and so, eventually, will the Parliamentary Ombudsman. Complaining is a long and difficult process, but if you can keep with it, procedures can sometimes change. I'd like to be more positive about the complaints system but I can't.

A good MP is very useful, especially as at the moment you need a referral from the MP to go to the Ombudsman. But if you've told your MP everything from the start, they should be happy to refer you when your complaint gets that far.

Arrrgh I agree. Another letter received telling us we had to pay more back. Rang them us as they hadn't sent a payment advice and we wanted to pay. Spoke to a lovely man who confirmed our details but who had to transfer me over...to a most unpleasant man who I had to confirm my details with, kept talking over the top of me and I got upset. Told me I had to take a breath and stop being so snide and if I continued in that manner the call was going to be terminated - several times. He continued on in that way throughout the whole conversation thus ensuring I could hardly get my card number out - last time I was spoken to like that was in an abusive relationship and that was the reason I was acting in that manner ie "emotional" and I quote "childish and rude". At the end of the frankly one way conversation he said thank you sarcastically. He may have heard me say as I put the phone down "yeah you misogynistic, abusive, controlling PERSON." Didn't swear, should have.

The thing that upsets me is the total difference in attitude between the two operatives. The first one (which I did ask if I could be put back to as the second one was so agressive sounding). I am usually the one to defend and understand it is not their fault as I did with person 1 - 2 wouldn't let me, to busy telling me how rude, snide, childish and emotional I was.

Sorry, just sounding off. Rather starve than have anything to do with them again. There you go, his job is done.

If we could increase the single person allowance evern more - say to £14k a year and take people off tax credits entirely that would save a lot of complication and admin and perhaps remove those lower earners from NI too which starts at neare £7500 a year earnings.