Veganism: really all that?

[yellowsquarepostit]

The few people I know who've gone vegan due various reasons and motivations (a surprising number being BF mums who found baby had issues with dairy) say they feel amazing.

AIBU to think it's due to concentrating more on healthy eating generally? And potentially as milk can inhibit absorption of some things e.g. Iron. And maybe it's just the milk or the meat?

I guess I'm hoping for a relapsed vegan may comment!

I do agree, and I think it suits certain people. But most dietary allergies and intolerances can be addressed without going vegan.

I'm not persuaded by any of the health arguments for veganism or vegetarianism, humans are lucky and can live well on all kinds of diets but we are obviously meant to be omnivores. I just personally want as little to do with factory farming as possible (and practical) but I see this as a long term gradual series of changes for me.

you are right OP for a lot (not all) people veganism is a trend, alongside self diagnosed intolerances.

Before I get shouted down I am fully aware allergies and intolerances exist but a lot are trend led, not diagnosed and never would be. And to me are harmful to those with genuine issues, plus come from a misinformed base.

For example lactose intolerant people can consume processed dairy as the sugars that cause the issues no longer exist in enough/the right format to cause the issues in cheese/yoghurt etc. So avoid milk yes, dairy no.

Iron absorption in logtitudanal studies shows no interaction between calcium and iron absorption in varied diets.

My other bugbear is ethical vegans (animals and environment) that consume eg almond milk - totally destroying California's environment and slaughtering honey bees. Quinoa - exports are starving the people of peru and Bolivia who can no longer afford to eat their staple food.

I could go on but the point is that it's actually very very hard to actually claim to eat ethically so perhaps choosing locally produced, high welfare, in season foods and balancing your diet is the best we can do?

Which in the interests of clarity I am UTTERLY shit at, which is why I never claim to eat ethically.

It's unfair to label it a fad for those who feel very strongly about the ethics

I didn't. I labelled it a fad for those who DON'T feel very strongly about the ethics. The ones who it is a fad for. The comment is self explanatory.

I agree 100% with the notion that a dirt should be tailored to the individual.

I spent 20 years as a vegetarian, dabbling in vegan ism and pescatarianism.

My body gave me a lovely surprise of long term IBS then severe B12 deficiency. I'm not absorbing much at all.

I can no longer eat a lot of fruit, veg, no pulses, a few nuts.

I can eat dairy, meat, small amounts of wheat and rice. I can also tolerate white fish.

I'd die if I had to be vegan.

I also agree that local high quality high welfare is better than imported foods. I do my best but it's very difficult.

I honestly don't think vegans can claim a moral high ground about animal welfare because I've read very convincing arguments against the effects on ecology and how a varied local diet is infinitely better for the environment.

Veganism made no difference to me when it involved pies and cakes. Eating a plant based diet DID- everything was better (apart from still being pretty fat)

Yellow, why would you avoid eggs to cut out lactose? They're not dairy! Or am I missing a link between eggs and assimilation of iron?

I agree with paperdoll I'm a vegan for the animals (have been vegetarian since age 10 for 20 years before going vegan). My diet doesn't make me feel better and I do miss toblerone but I will never go back to being a vegetarian. Someone who is plant based probably feels better than me but like I said, it's 100% not about health for me. I do eat lots of veg (whole bag of spinach and watercress every day as well as other veg). But I hate fruit

I was a vegan for 6 months until I discovered I had some severe issues with soya and nightshades and just found it difficult to eat an easy vegan diet without relying on both of those.
As I like to eat a good amount of locally and seasonally grown food for environmental reasons, veganism became very dull very quickly in the UK.

Oh and I definitely never take a moral high ground, just for me I couldn't eat an animal/drink it's milk or eat it's egg.

Well I actually do feel much better physically from eating a vegan diet, also I don't have to lie to myself anymore which is a big weight off my shoulders.
My skin has cleared up and my ibs is all but gone (except when I'm due a period). It took two months to get in the swing of it but there's no looking back now.
I have always had a healthy diet which was primarily fruit and veg but cutting out dairy and meat has been a revelation, and I am very fit and active. I teach on average 2 yoga classes a day, have my own practice and run four times a week. I have so much energy and I never feel like I am restricting myself, I eat cake, chocolate, crisps whenever I want to.

I think the issue with honey is that everyone has this idea of a backyard beekeeper who has a couple of hives and the bees go about pollinating everyone's gardens and though that is true for a tiny percentage of honey most honey you find in supermarkets and in Pre made food etc is made on an industrial scale where they use barbaric methods like cutting off the queen bees wings to prevent her from swarming.
My grandad was a backyard beekeeper so when I first went vegan I didn't understand why people wouldn't eat honey but factory farmed honey is horrendous!

Dairy definitely effected my children when I bf, as milk does with me.

Eggs are one of the most easily absorted forms of iron though, and vit d, so unsure why you would cut them out. I allways need eggs/fish to get enough iron, but meat makes me feel ill.

I'm unsure of the ethical stand point, vegans I know eat a lot of imported almond milk and coconut milk for sauces- shipping tankers do the greatest envirI mental damage- and soya/quinoa etc have ethical issues.

Surely locally sourced goats milk products would be a better option.

I am vegetarian, eat non-dairy based meals most days, but still have cow's milk and cheese for drinks and snacks.
I can't get rid of the lingering effects of a chest infection so I am thinking about giving up dairy for a while.
The reason I am posting is to mention Liquid Iron to the OP. I struggle with stomach upsets with iron in tablets form but Spatone Liquid does not have any ill effects. I don't know if the dose will be high enough but it may be worth a try.

Dairy definitely effected my children when I bf, as milk does with me

How, exactly? Because most people who say this don't seem to understand any mechanism of how that might be possible. Cows milk protein allergy is far more rare than people think, only about 1 in 50 of those that think they have it actually do.
I have heard people say their babies are lactose intolerant so they cut dairy out to BF, but we all know how ludicrous that is!

How is it any better to keep a goat pregnant, take its babies away (kill them if they are a boy) again and again, then kill it when it is no longer profitable, than a cow?? What's the difference what animal it is and how close it is to your house? Dairy is inhumane full stop.

It's not just vegans eating imported food, or drinking almond milk so using that as an ethical reason against veganism is really clutching at straws. You can't argue that eating quinoa every now and then had the same environmental impact as eating meat and dairy. Most soya that is produced is actually used to feed livestock not people, and then of the soya that is fed to people the vast majority of that is used to bulk up junk food, look at the back of any packet and you'll see most things have soya in them, then right at the bottom of the pile is the soya that is used in vegan food.

There is no way to live your life without making ANY environmental or ethical impact on the world but I would much rather choose not to actually pay my hard earned money on something that causes another living thing misery when I could just as easily it eat it.

Sorry typo
*not eat it.

I've only been on a plant-based diet for 2 months but feel infinitely better. The eczema that's been on my hands for nearly 5 years is almost gone. My digestion is so much better: no heart burn, indigestion, constipation.....my head is clear, my period pain is decreased.

I take various supplements anyway - having pregnancies close together, breastfeeding etc all took their toll way before I changed my diet.

The almond milk thing is fallacious - the production of almond milk is way less damaging than the production of cattle and beef products in California, in terms of water consumption and global warming.

Also Maxwellthecat's comments about honey are spot on. Cheap, mass produced honey is not made from the pollen of flowers so much as just a sugar solution.

There are scientists that are already saying humans don't need the breast milk of another species that was designed to develop a 60 lb calf into a quarter tone beast. Those hormones were not meant for us - especially in the quantities we consume it.

user147etc you are wrong on that, both my dd's were severally lactose intolerant as babies, dd1 failed to thrive, lost weight and became very ill when I cut dairy out of my diet she gained weight all of this was done on the advice of healthcare professionals who were very concerned about her at opne point she was hospitalised due to her failure to gain weight. As she got older she became intolerant to soya and gluten as well, that was fun. As she aged she grew out of these but every now and then needs a break, lactose intolerance is quite complex but essentially meant my dd was starving as she was absorbing no food, you don;t get the same intolerances from breast milk as the human body is designed to absorb it.

My children had exceema and reflux and that cleared within a couple of weeks of cutting out dairy, as advised by the consultant we delt with. They also started gaining weight after cutting out dairy, although soya needed cut out also. It took until they were around 2 until they were OK with it, although they have never taken to milk as a drink. I'm fine with most dairy but can't tolerate milk, it definitely increases mucus for me, and sets off acid reflux & ibs

Dita i presume the pp is referring to the fact that lactose in breastmilk is the same as lactose in dairy & requires the same enzyme in our livers to digest it (& only a small % of the populaturn are born without this)

But you are correct that lactose digestion is more complex than that. Secondary lactose intolerance is linked to gut enzymes and not uncommon after d&v, or present when other intolerances upset the bacteria, or more common with premies ( according to our consultant).

Tbf I don't really care about food ethics, but I eat what my stomach can tolerate as that isn't much in my case.

It's totally fine to not care about food ethics, most people don't.

I also know that if I had other food intolerances that being vegan would be very difficult and I'm not sure I could do it.

However if thats your reason then just say that instead of trying to argue against veganism from a moral standpoint, saying things like
"Surely locally sourced goats milk products would be a better option."

I think it's like any lifestyle, It really suits some people

A few of my friends have gone vegan in the last few years

One of them you can see a real diffrence in her, she does look a lot better for it (her skin has really cleaned itself up, her weight has come off) and she says she feels better. She went vegan to ethical reasons

Another friend went vegan for a diet it was going to make her healthy but she's still battling her weight but she lives on vegan chocolate cake as she apparently doesn't know what to cook

user147etc you are wrong on that, both my dd's were severally lactose intolerant as babies, dd1 failed to thrive, lost weight and became very ill when I cut dairy out of my diet she gained weight all of this was done on the advice of healthcare professionals

Some health care professionals also don't seem to know that you cannot cure lactose intolerance by removing dairy while breastfeeding. Breastmilk has MORE lactose than cows milk, how do you imagine the possible traces of lactose from you drinking milk could affect the BM that is mostly made of lactose?

It's ridiculous that people think this, and even HCP's peddle this nonsense!