Not to understand the appeal of Starbucks, Costa, etc.?

[Nataleejah]

What is the thing with them?
Drinks are nothing special, food is not the freshest, yet you pay for a coffee and a sandwich just as much as for a decent restaurant meal.
Or it its an adult version of a "happy meal" ?

I don't like Costa or Buttfucks but I DO like Pret and don't mind Nero. Depending on where you are, sometimes they're the least worst or the only option; and you know that in Pret anyway, you'll get decent coffee at a reasonable price with friendly and quick service.

Given the choice I'd go to an indie though.

deee, yes, I use a KeepCup (the plastic ones, not the see-through ones. I don't like throwing away all those paper cups and I'm never sure if they're recyclable.

Well really it is everyone's business if we run out of resources, no? So while no, I'm really not interested in judging you personally or your individual circumstances that require you to buy your meals and drinks while you're out and about, we clearly do need a societal shift in attitude towards the generating of waste products and how we deal with them. It's got shit all to do with snobbery, I work a crappy min. wage job, but that doesn't preclude me from caring about the environment.

Deedee would you tell me about your metal water flask please? I have had a couple of plastic ones and although I buy decent-ish ones that claim to be free of nasties they invariably get a weird taste and smell around the mouth piece bit.

Hipster?

It's perfectly normal to care about saving money and not creating waste.
And totally ordinary to want to decide where you spend your money.

Jeez

Peace and love please - We really don't want to start having to delete PAs on this thread.

It's all down to individual choice & taste. People vote with their feet. I use & mixture of both indies & Starbucks in London. Out if the chains I also like Cafe Nero but, detest Costa

Little princess, fair enough , I think we're having a bizarre argument because I actually don't think that there's anything wrong with folk buying takeaway, as long as they give thought to using reusable cups etc. I didn't agree with your labelling people snobs and hipsters if they felt it was possible to live without convenience food. But I don't think our argument is constructive, so I'll apologise for my part in it and bow out.

littleprincess : "what gives you the right to judge me?"

What gives you the right to judge a 'rich' SAHM having a debate over coffee shops?

Re metal water bottle. Google Klean Kanteen, or there's loads of others. Stainless steel drinks flask

With the chains you know what you are getting which can be important in an unfamiliar place or if we have ds in tow. We either have takeaway cups or bring our own metal reusable ( ifwe remember) because we sometimes have to leave quickly and ds can be very grabby/ prone to knocking things over / rocking the table.

Chains also tend to be more tolerant of ds although there are local independent cafes who are ok with him because we are regular customers.

Uh, I've been an ardent environmentalist for years. My "convenience" creates minimal waste (doing what you suggest also creates waste and environmental damage, e.g. food packaging and car emissions. Home 'pod' coffee machines in particular are an environmental nightmare). Like I said I carry a reusable water bottle around everywhere, very rarely buy hot drinks, and when I do I use compostable cups.

I'm willing to bet I'm a lot more 'green' than the average person. I am certainly more green than someone who drives a car every day and does a full grocery shop in Tesco, but that's apparently perfectly fine and even admirable!

I clearly said that the obsession with independent coffee shops over chain coffee shops was "hipster." Unless marking a coffee cup with a cool label somehow magically makes it not-waste?

I didn't agree with your labelling people snobs and hipsters if they felt it was possible to live without convenience food.

Deeedee, we are talking at cross-purposes. I am not talking about forgoing convenience food (although I do think you need to understand more about "able-bodied privilege" when lecturing severely disabled people!).

The snob and hipster comments were aimed at the original subject, which is indie vs chain.

Personally I never buy takeaway coffee ever and I don't agree with using disposable cups on environmental grounds so it's a moot point. But it is pretty silly to act like a disposable cup with 'The Noble Art of Espresso' written on it is morally superior to a disposable cup with 'Costa' written on it.

Yes I agree, we are talking at cross purposes.

import beans from the Amazon rain forest Brazilian beans are from the Brazilian Highlands in the states of São Paulo, Minas Gerais, Rio De Janeiro, Paraná and Esprito Santo, not the Amazon. The cheaper beans, if they're from Brazil at all, they will cheaper because they are from lower altitudes.
The Coffee to avoid, if you care about the environment is sun-grown coffee. Shade-grown coffee at high altitudes from traditional high altitude coffee producers is the better coffee to get, for people who care. If you're not bothered about air miles obviously.

what an odd thing to be competitive about - the least comercialised cup of bloody coffee

I'm sorry but when I have been travelling all day for work I tend to go to the nearest service station and buy from who ever sells coffee - I wont be coming off the motorway and driving to the 'nearest' town to try and locate and uber cool little indie place any time soon

Kingsizechochetblanket

Forget about expensive and environmentally wasteful coffee machines.

Get one of these over cup filter cones and a box of paper filters from any supermarket. You can use them with any ground coffee. Quick and easy, Cheap as chips, environmentally friendly and excellent coffee.

www.amazon.co.uk/Flat-Bottom-FILTER-Coffee-Filter/dp/B000VZGCME/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477228196&sr=8-1&keywords=coffee+filter+cone

Those are only good if you use them with cheesecloth type washable filter. That one requires filter papers. Very wasteful. We have one with a filter that we wash and keep in the fridge. like this

I had never heard of the cheesecloth filters. Interesting.

We can put the paper filters and the grounds into our food waste bin so it gets composted, but the cheese cloth ones would be handy when we are staying somewhere that doesn't offer the recycling service.

This thread is just like the old days and reminds me why I love Mumsnet so much

I have to say I've never seen them outside Brazil, but that amazon link is American so they must be catching on elsewhere. Even if they're composted, they still come from grown, chopped, produced trees, on a large scale, so not ideal. Perhaps there is a market for reusable filters in Europe!

I have a contigo cup/flask which most coffee shops will happily fill for me. Main problem is with it being insulated, it's about an hour before it's at a temperature I can drink.

I love my Nero fix on days off. The staff know me really well. And I love sitting reading the paper with a cup of coffee. I am I. My second Nero visit of the day as I write this. It's my only vice. I don't drink, smoke or go out much.

We also have a Costa at work. Although the service is terrible. A latte sets me up for the day

I like my pod machines. I have all sorts of things like that at work, French presses, drip coffeemail bits and bobs, I'm afraid I'm still buying a nespresso.
I'm environmentally aware in many other ways. My recycling is impeccable, I use a reusable cup, I don't buy into disposable fashion etc. Not going to compromise on my coffee though.