To think that the school should pay the cost of my son doing GCSE music

[ReallyTired]

My son is doing GCSE music at a state school. We are expected to pay for him to learn an instrument. I don't have a problem with this I knew at the outset. (£200 a term)

The school has now dropped the bomb shell that we now have to pay for music theory lessons as my son does not have grade 5 theory. I feel that the music theory that a child needs for GCSE should be covered in the school lessons. It's another £60 a term I did not budget for.

We aren't entitled to free music lessons. Why should I be paying £260 pounds a term for preparation for a GCSE in a state school. I feel the school should provide the music theory classes for free.

The school should be teaching the theory required as part of the curriculum. In ds's & dd's school they start in year 7. DS is currently year 8 & I reckon what he's been doing in class so far is around Grade 1 level though it's not all the time. They will do a few weeks theory followed by practical/composition folo We'd by studying pieces/instruments of the orchestra etc.

My guess at the crate they are going they would be around Grade 2/3 at the end of year 9

Dd is year 10 & taking GCSE (different school). The school run after school music theory classes as an optional extra for all pupils but she is being taught everything needed for GCSE within the class.

Really tired - your sons school is obviously not familiar with the Trinity system of having a viva voce as part of each grade rather than a written theory exam.

I reckon they need to educate themselves.

You need grade 5 theory to progress beyond grade 5 practical - well you did in my day anyway. I did GCSE music and although there was some theory, it was nowhere near grade 5 level (20 years ago now, so things could have changed) and there were people in my class who didn't have that sort of musical background (guitarists, drummers, musical theatre style singers). A level was much more advanced.

Also, most private music teachers worth anything will not separate theory/instrument. It's practically impossible to properly learn an instrument separated from the theory. All the teachers I've had (10 years of piano lessons) combined the two during the 45 mins - 1hr. I would ask his current teacher why he's not being taught theory, if he really isn't.

I'm not sure that is true. DD didn't do much theory with her piano lessons until she needed to (she needed grade five theory before she could do grade six piano). The teacher of the second instrument obviously didn't do much theory either. She is doing grade 8 in two instruments now so it doesn't seem to have done any harm to do it that way.

In order to progress beyond grade 5 in an instrument, you have to have got grade 5 music theory for the ABRSM (sp?) exams. I got so fed up with DD having to go over things she'd already covered that I ended up stopping the school theory route and asking her (rather wonderful) clarinet teacher to teach her grade 5 theory alongside her grade 6 clarinet tuition. She sat the theory test externally and got a distinction.

Agree that as you are paying privately, see if there are any instrument tutors who will go with the Trinity exam board, as it is much more child friendly.

Grade 5 Theory is pretty much the stuff that you learn for GCSE anyway and basically this teacher is just saying she CBA to teach the theory part of the course as most of the children know it already... so she's making the others pay for it so she doesnt' have to.

That's ridiculous.

60 of us took music at my school and although some of us had G5 Theory a lot of us didn't. I only took it once I was at 6th form so I could say I had the certificate. Went on to get A Level music and a BA in Music and the highest 'certificate' I have is G6 (although obviously I got to a higher standard than that, just never took the exams).

But the ABRSM workbooks are great, I agree.

You don't need grade 5 if you take Trinity exams which thecOPS DS does.

That is because Trinity incorporate a theory element in every grade exam as a viva voce part of the exam. Candidates are asked questions about the music & asked to identify things like chords, keys, intervals, dynamics, cadences, etc

My son has GCSE and A level Music but has never taken any of his grades.

I think it would be a school decision. I've never heard of an exam board insisting that students have passed a different exam before taking their own.

There is no requirement for grade 5 theory at dd's school in order to take GCSE Music. Dd has piano lessons in school that I willingly pay for (because it would be a pain fitting them in at weekends or after school) but the GCSE course would be fully covered in lessons at her school.

At DDs school they school pays half the cost of the music lessons at school if they do GCSE/A level and there is no requirement for grade 5 theory.

The school is being lazy, and expecting you to pay for their laziness. Totally unreasonable. You do not need G5 theory, or practical to do GCSE music (good job cos ds doesn't have either!), though being a reasonably able musician obviously helps with the practical component of the assessment.

I'd be writing to the Head of Music, ccing the Head pointing out that they are required to deliver the curriculum in full, and if they are unable to do so they must make and pay for alternative arrangements.

Imagine if the Maths teacher decided they weren't going to teach simultaneous equations and asked parents to pay a tutor to cover this part of the syllabus instead...

I think the school should definitely pay for these theory lessons, if indeed they are actually required.

Are you sure that the theory isn't just a 'nice to have' and the school are making it sound compulsory when it's not?

But if it IS - they should pay. IMO it's not different to asking a GCSE maths student to pay for the 'theory' of maths. It would be outrageous.

I'm also a classroom teacher and head of (music) department and I've examined as well. There's some pretty interesting and not always acurate advice here but what everyone is correctly outraged about is the lack of interest from the teacher. This lack of interest could well become a problem for you as said teacher seems like they may assume a level of knowledge and have no intention of covering certain aspects of theory and you and DS may not realise the gaps in the knowledge until too late. I've just erased the rest of my post as it was so humungously long as to take up a whole page of the thread . Message me if you want some advice (which needs to be syllabus specific) but be warned that you may have to tread carefully with the school. Also, your DS is on grade 4 guitar - that's great and he is doing well and should be applauded for that and encouraged and not made to feel deficient.

My daughter has just started G.C.S.E music. She has never taken any grades previously but the head of music was very impressed with her vocal ability and waived the entrance requirements to get her on the course (she had previously chosen something else thinking she was not eligable). She has been assessed as grade 6, although I have no idea how that stands with no previous theory experience. She gets weekly singing lessons free at school as part of her Course (these are with a qualified vocal instructor and do not take place in music lessons). All the other music students also get their music lessons free of charge through the school. I find it quite shocking that some people have to pay so much to study a G.C.S.E and could definatly not afford hundreds per term for my dd to be able to study music.

They should pay as they hadn't let you know about the cost before hand. They have no right to put you in a position where you have to spend money you didn't budget for.

You don't need Grade 5 theory to pass GCSE music. It's a bit like saying you need GCSE Latin in order to take another language. GCSE music and Grade 5 theory are different exams which test different skills.