To be so bloody angry about this?

[Shodan]

Maybe I am. I don't know.

My Dad died, 3 weeks ago. He had been ill with cancer since January; and before that, many heart problems which landed him in hospital since a year ago Christmas. The funeral was on Thursday just gone.

I have 4 brothers and one sister. Three of those brothers never visited Dad in the past 18 months. My sister visited about once a month; the other brother (brother number 2) once every few weeks, but stayed for a couple of days each time.

The lack of visits from two of the brothers didn't bother me so much (numbers 1 and 3)(one lives in Oz; the other has had no contact with Dad for many years and is a violent and unpleasant person.) But brother number 4- he lives an hour's drive away, has no children, owns a brand new car- and never visited. He also has a wife, who, tbh, we've all tried to like but really never taken to.

Now, of course, the vultures are circling. They're all putting in their dibs for Dad's stuff. Obviously, that's one part of what is making me angry.

What's really making me fume is my sister-in-law.

We are unable to email brother no. 4 without her seeing the email. She reads and replies to group emails concerning Dad. They share a mobile phone, so she reads texts. She doesn't work, so is always at home when we ring him.

She keeps proffering unwanted and unasked-for 'advice' on dealing with the estate (I and brother number 2 are the executors). And now brother number 4 is saying that both of them will come and help clear out Dad's flat.

I don't bloody want her there, picking through my Dad's things. I don't want her poking her nose in where it's not wanted. If she had had any kind of relationship with my Dad, it would be different. If she had had any kind of relationship with the rest of us, it would be different.

But she hasn't. She's made it quite clear that she dislikes us as a family.

I know I'm grieving- I had a much closer relationship with Dad than anyone else, partly because I visited him far more often- and emotions always run high at times like these. But I can't stop being angry with the pair of them.

I'm so sorry for your loss. It sounds like you're having a really tough time of it.

I think it's totally reasonable to suggest that siblings only are involved in the discussions about property. I also think it's great that you have made this a rule across all couples so it doesn't look like she is being singled out. It sounds as though some of your siblings are aware of the issues with her, so hopefully it will be easy to gain their agreement and enforce some boundaries around this.

Their behaviour together is odd, in particular the way that she waited in the car and greeted him. Is it possible that they have a very different narrative of the family to you, where your DB is some kind of victim of exclusion or abuse? The greeting him like a long-lost relative after a short absence might suggest some kind of anxiety of that kind??

Yanbu at all to insist that sil doesn't come.

Without knowing the sil it's hard to tell but I don't think it sounds like she is necessarily a horrible person or is being vulture-like. I would doubt she expects there to be anything of special value in your dad's personal effects, no one thinks they're going to find a diamond ring while going through an old man's stuff. She's going along with her dh who presumably is entitled to a share in the estate. She probably is just supporting him, nothing more sinister than that. Fine to say No to her being there, but the idea that she would help her dh go through his dead father's belongings does not make her the devil incarnate!

Perhaps you have reason to dislike her (her having few friends and a quiet life is not a good reason to though!) but she will undoubtedly have picked up on this. I don't think the fact of her waiting in the car when her Dh last saw your dad sounds creepy at all by the way-- you say yourself you were glad she wasn't there and it sounds quite unselfish of her to along to support her DH without intruding on family time or acting bitter about the fact she wasn't wanted.

It sounds like you're upset your brother didn't support your after in his last years, and perhaps there is something to this. But you can't blame sil for this.

I think it might be best to be firm about her involvement (maybe speak to your DB directly about how it's upsetting you) but don't waste energy on getting angry with her. It is not helping you.

is it possible that they have a very different narrative of the family to you, where your DB is some kind of victim of exclusion or abuse?

Yes I also thought this might be true.

As executor, it's pretty much your legal responsibility (along with the other brother) to ensure that nothing's taken from the property until the Will has been sorted. You can't allow people to pile in and leave with armfuls of stuff.

Also, this is a sad, reflective time, not a jolly get-together at the flat. She should stay away, and let his children get on with it.

From what you've said though, she strikes me as a very clingy, needy person who's desperate to be in the mix, as opposed to a legacy-vulture. I'm guessing that your brother may need your support to extricate himself at some point in the future, but that's a different topic.

If you & another brother are executors then no one else needs to be involved.

I think that I would stop emailing the other brother if his SIL sees everything & you don't want her to.

It could be a sign of abuse although tbh I've never had an email that I wouldn't mind my husband reading.

Pointed perhaps that your dad gave him a key?

I lost my brother recently and my other brother and I cleared his flat. There is something very intimate about going through someone else's things. I felt it was an honour to do it and I certainly wouldn't have wanted anyone not close to him to do it.

Make it clear your Dad would only have wanted his children to do this. Change the locks and only give keys to the executors.

Good luck and stay strong

Not at all! I was raised by my GM and her eldest son had had nothing to so with the family until I was 15 and she became very very ill (deathbed coma type ill) . He immediately took over and felt he should make decisions about her despite not talking to her for all that time. She was still ill but recovered a bit and came home paralysed after 7 months in hospital. I cared for her mostly alone for the next 4 years. He visited at birthdays/Christmas, made decisions and changed things around as he felt he could. When she passed, she didn't have much, and nothing very sentimental expect old photos, which my mum has. Most of her other possessions were left to me in her ( sadly unwitnessed) will and she wanted me to sort out her estate, such as it was. He walked into our flat and cleared it all without my permission, threw out my childhood toys and took pictures my GM had stitched ( and left to me) and gave them to his wife ( who he then split up with shortly after, one of them still has the pictures). I was devastated and I could never let anyone not close to the person who had passed go through their things. I wish I had been older, wiser and less tired then and it wouldn't have happened.

Posted too early!

I'm so sorry for your loss. xx

So sorry for your loss

I agree with the poster who said SIL is probably does not have any evil ulterior motives, she probably feels it's one of the ways she can help and support her own DH.

Although it is highly inappropriate for her to come along and help sort through your Dads things. She has absolutely no place there unless she was very close to him (like a daughter) and has been specifically asked by you and your siblings

'Dear DB & SIL, while we appreciate SIL's kind offer of help to help sort through Dad's flat, this emotional and intimate task will, however, only be carried out by his children. We will see DB at (time & date) to sort out the flat, thanking you, SIL, in advance for understanding and giving us the space and privacy we need'

^^ maybe a bit formal, but I think if you say something like 'we know SIL will understand' and thank her for her support etc. She won't be able to act unreasonably and kick off

'Dear DB & SIL, while we appreciate SIL's kind offer of help to help sort through Dad's flat, this emotional and intimate task will, however, only be carried out by his children. We will see DB at (time & date) to sort out the flat, thanking you, SIL, in advance for understanding and giving us the space and privacy we need'

This is perfect. You know your SIL best and probably her motives but I just wanted to say that I have been in her position a couple of times when DH's parents died. I was close to both his parents and took on a caring role for his Mum for the last few months of her life. As a DIL I wasn't part of the main family group and it was quite isolating in the weeks following his Mum's death particularly. DH and his siblings were very united in their grief which was of course totally appropriate but I had to make a conscious decision to step back and let them get on with it. I wanted to be involved because I too was grieving and being a part of things made me feel better and more supported. In the end I focused on feeding them all, it gave me a role and some purpose within it. Ultimately their needs were greater than mine. Sorry for your loss OP xxx

sorry for your loss, Shodan
I was going to suggest changing the locks but see that you have explained why that's not an option.

You have every right to be ranty. Death can make arseholes out of people and it does at times bring some of the vultures gathering.
Clearing and packing away a beloved ones personal things is (in a way) like looking through their life, and it is part of the grieving process. To others in your family it's looking more of a let's see what he has or what can we have...
They have no respect. I do hope you find a solution

Changing the locks IS an option.

Talk to the Warden of the block, Caretaker maybe? Explain that you, as executor, need to secure the property asap.

Those locks are special security locks and whoever looks after the block should be able to assist you in securing your dad’s estate. They would change the locks anyway for a new occupant.

Sorry for your loss - I feel your pain – my sister totally destroyed our family in a very similar way when my mum passed.

Yanbu. It's very odd they share a phone in this day and age.

Thank you all so much for your replies, and your condolences.

'Dear DB & SIL, while we appreciate SIL's kind offer of help to help sort through Dad's flat, this emotional and intimate task will, however, only be carried out by his children. We will see DB at (time & date) to sort out the flat, thanking you, SIL, in advance for understanding and giving us the space and privacy we need'

I like this very much; it gets across what I want to say without being arsey

I have to say, I don't see SIL as evil in any way. It's just that since she and DB have been together (20 years or so) we have never seen him on his own. She has always been there. He himself, at the funeral, said something along the lines of 'See, this is why we need friends' (he was looking at the floral tributes and noting the small amount of non-family members there). She literally flounced away.

We all feel like she has deliberately isolated him. Don't get me wrong, he could have done something about it himself I guess- but he was always so outgoing and laid back. A recent phone call with him revealed that all has not been rosy in their marriage for some years, so I suppose this is all adding to my anger.

He has put on a shedload of weight, has sleep apnoea, depression. SIL hasn't worked for over a year, but DB is the one who works full time and takes care of all the household chores.

Ugh. I sound like a really interfering DSis/SIL myself. I'm really not- I haven't ever said anything untoward to him about her, haven't bothered them in their isolation and tried very hard not to judge (I think I've probably failed big time there, but I've kept it to myself).

I would never interfere in someone's marriage, but the fact that SIL is pushing herself in, making sure that my DB can't be without her even at this difficult time, doesn't sit well with me at all.

Also, as a previous poster mentioned (I'm sorry, I've forgotten your name!)- there will already be four of us there to clear things away. It's a small one bedroomed flat- even that number of people is going to be overkill, let alone an extra who shouldn't even be there.

I do think you would be wise to speak to the warden about having the lock changed, or at least an extra one added - you have no idea who your father gave copies of the keys to.

Also if SIL is answering group emails about your dads estate and you don't want her to, put something in your email about that. Just ask Brother no 4 to reply direct to the email as you want HIS input (ie not SILs)

That would drive me crazy too

I would just say that legally it is executors only, as you need to sort stuff for probate, and thus don't want anyone other than the executors there.

I'm afraid I would suggest that if there is anything special you want in your dad's house you take it now otherwise, as you said, the vultures will take it.

Part of the problem is that Dad said specifically that everyone can choose a memento, if they like. One item each, really. Brother two and I chose something that pertained to Dad's career, which have sentimental value to us too. Brother 4, however, has requested 3 or 4 things, one of which is some medals that Dad was awarded during his career. While we have no objection to this per se, we would add the condition that when brother 4 dies, they are returned to Dad's children or grandchildren (blood relatives, basically). We really don't want them to go to SIL. They are, essentially, heirlooms-in-the-making, and since DB and SIL have no children, it wouldn't be right for her to keep them.

Brother number 2 is going to speak to brother number 4 tonight I believe, so let's hope that's the end of it.