To think Cliff Richard and co should stop their awful campaign?

[PinkyOfPie]

news.sky.com/story/sir-cliff-urged-to-drop-campaign-for-anonymity-for-sex-offence-suspects-10620627

In a nutshell Cliff Richard and other well known men have launched a campaign to grant anonymity to accused sexual offenders.

AIBU to think they should FOTTFSOF? Aside from it being a well known fact the other victims come forward when they see their abuser/rapist has been charged, there is absolutely zero evidence to suggest a 'false' accusation of a sex crime impacts a person more than a false accusation of any other crime. Its a horrible rape myth that damages victims.

Also the official stats false accusations for rape and sexual assault (of which around 35 people are convicted a year in the U.K.) are no higher than false accusations any other crime.

So why in gods name would those accused of sexual crimes ever get special treatment?

Yes, I know it's what women go through.

My sister was raped. I saw what she went through and still goes through. So do we as her family.

But I also know someone who was falsely accused and saw what they went through and still go through. And his family.

This is why I will see both sides. I suspect if you were me, so would you.

Your most recent posting actually comes across as if you don't believe there are EVER any false accusations, with your use of "so called" and putting falsely accused in inverted commas. That is simply untrue. They may be infinitesimal in comparison with rapes, reported and unreported, but it is nonsense to suggest they don't occur and that those who have lived through it and with it, are basically expendable and their feelings don't count.

I am well aware that there are false allegations of rape, no more higher than any other false allegations of other crimes. I put so called or use inverted commas because I don't think every false allegation is false - see the links I've put in the above posts.

No people falsely accused aren't indespensible and their feelings do count. I am well aware of how that feels, please trust me on that one. I can't say anything else on her because I don't want to put down too much prsonal information.

But equally you're saying that the thousands of rape victims who would find it even harder to get justice if we brought in anonymity for men are expendable and their feelings don't count. Because they outnumber men that have been falsely accused by thousands, and their lives ruined forever.

I'm going to leave this thread on the basis that someone seriously proposed to me that my ex's brief brush with a false accusation might have impacted him more greatly than my own rape. Thanks, and fuck you.

I'm going to leave this thread on the basis that someone seriously proposed to me that my ex's brief brush with a false accusation might have impacted him more greatly than my own rape. Thanks, and fuck you.

RoundandAroundshegoes - I know how that feels. (hugs)

Round

Threads like this just secure my belief in feminism when people suggest that a man on the receiving end of an accusation could be worse than a woman whose body has been infiltrated against their will.

I don't think people realise just how much they don't give a shit about women

I agree Pinky. To want to introduce something that will benefit a handful people in comparison to thousands that have gone through so much worse seems incredible to me.

Introducing anonymity also perpetuates the myth that loads of women lie about rape when they don't.

I've never met a man who's been falsely accused. However every woman I've ever been close enough to talk about this kind of stuff with has been raped or sexually assaulted.

I know false accusations happen but they are not in the same league as women, girls and boys who are abused but disbelieved.

its mine

your better way is introducing anonymity which will make it even harder for the thouands of rape victims each year to get justice. that's not a better way.

ShatnersWig you don't think rape doesn't affect a woman's family, boyfriends, future husbands, children, the way she approaches sex, men, life? Really?

And you and its think it's better for thousands of women to be collateral damage in order for a handful of men's reputations to be protected, than it is for that handful of men to be collateral damage?

How can that be read as anything other than "those men's lives are more valuable and important than "just the women" "?

It just can't.

And further: anonymity for men accused of rape, is a message to all women that if we get raped and report, the state will prioritise the welfare of our rapist, above that of ourselves. It is a message to the whole of society, that women are not as valuable as men. It affects all women, not just those who are raped.

You have to accept that in a justice system, someone is going to suffer. It's not bloody fair that the children of a man who commits burglary get to see their childhood blighted by his term in prison when they are innocent of any crime. It's not bloody fair that witnesses sometimes suffer as the result of being called to the witness box. Lots of things about the justice system, life etc., are not bloody fair. As a society we have to weigh and measure and try and go for the path of least harm to the least number of people. You have decided that the path of least harm, is to protect a tiny number of men rather than an enormous number of women.

I just can't see how that can be read as anything other than a subliminal belief that men matter more than women.

Ask, of course I don't think it doesn't affect the family or anyone connected to a rape victim. I have never stated that and if you'd read my last post you will see my sister has been the victim of a bastard rapist. I've also already said justice isn't fair.

I'm leaving this thread now. This isn't a fucking competition. It is possible to believe in anonymity until charged without at the same remotely thinking that that automatically means men's lives are more important.

Ordinary men who are accused of rape are not nor named by the media before charge. Hell, most aren't even named in the media after charge or even after conviction. The rumours and gossip arise among those who knows the defendant as a result of the police investigation - and no law will ever stop that.

So only a tiny handful of men have ever been affected by being named in the media prior to charge. Literally a handful. Ever.

Whereas over 80000 women are raped every single year.

I will never agree that it is reasonable to make life harder for over 80000 people a year to safeguard a tiny handful of famous, privileged men who are wealthy enough to sue anyone who oversteps the line and who have a public platform to protest their innocence and get sympathy.

The ordinary men who people talk about 'having their lives ruined' wouldn't be affected by a change in the law at all. Because it isn't the media naming them.

I mean, what do people think is going to change for ordinary accused men?

The police have to name the suspect (and victim btw) in the course of their investigation. Anyone who they interview abut Man X's whereabouts or Woman Y's movements at the time of the incident or leading up to it is told who he individuals are. Because it would be impossible for he police to gather evidence otherwise.

That is what leads to the gossip. That is what leads to ordinary men being known as accused rapists I'm their local community. It's not the media, and there's nothing that can be done to stop it unless you prohibit the police from investigating altogether.

Saying my comments are cringeworthy, is not an argument against them, it's just an opinion of them.

I disagree with your opinion.

Agree with absolutely everything ask and woman said.

I also think the only people turning this into a competition are the ones insisting that false accusations are on par or worse than someone who's been raped. Someone even said that to a rape victim on this thread FFS.

I've reported several comments that perpetuate rape myths and very annoyed to see MNHQ haven't taken them down

Also pointing out that on many occasions, society has to decide whose welfare comes first, because there is a clash of rights, is not making anything a competition.

You can acknowledge that life isn't perfect, that no human system can ever be perfect and that therefore priorities need to be established, without making it a simplistic competition. In the end though, what priority you choose, says something about what you value.

I'm going to leave this thread on the basis that someone seriously proposed to me that my ex's brief brush with a false accusation might have impacted him more greatly than my own rape. Thanks, and fuck you. - You might want to brush up on your comprehension skills if that's what you took away from my post. Your ex's brief brush with a false accusation is not indicative of what happens in all cases, neither is your experience of rape.

As an example. I have technically been raped on numerous occasions. I had underaged sex on multiple occasions whereby the male in question was significantly older than I. This has had no affect on me in any ay shape or form. I've also, on more than one occasion, woken up to a partner having penetrative intercourse with me without my consent - I got up, told him to fuck off and went about my day, it has had no negative impact on me whatsoever. Now under the exact same circumstances another woman may well feel extremely differently and it could impact on her life in an extremely negative way.

Likewise, your ex's experience may well have been such that he has been able to move on with his life to an extent that he feels it has had no impact, another man in his situation may have been left feeling psychology traumatised for a very long time.

I wasn't going to come back and post on this thread, I think it's futile and I've not really anything more to say about it. However, since I've been told to 'fuck off' and had someone insinuate that something was stated that has not been I thought I would come back and clarify my previous statement. Though I am dismayed that some people found my post difficult to follow.

Oh and I won't be coming back to post so do feel free to continue slinging mud and discussing which sections of society you deem most worthy of protection over others.

discussing which sections of society you deem most worthy of protection over others.

Oh the irony.

It is a hard question.
I have a friend who was falsely accused by an ex- partner. It was awful. He was suspended from his job while it was investigated (school) and it took months. Nothing happens quickly with the police. Mobile phones, computers etc were taken looking for messages, photos, emails, facebook etc. The partner lived locally with their family and the story spread. My friend worked with children and works locally. It was a source of gossip and speculation and people took sides.
It was one person's word against another in the end. No other evidence found. Eventually the police (or CPA, not sure who) decided not to prosecute but did not say he was not guilty, just had not enough evidence to procede. He went back to work but left because the situation was untenable because of gossip and people having decided there was no smoke without fire. Career over.
He has had one relationship in the two years since and it ended when he told them what had happened- they felt uncomfotable about it.
He lost 3 stone when it was happening and was just terrified. It did affect his whole life. He is still having treatment for depression . He is such a nice and kind person. It seems terribly unfair in his case but I can never know really if he did or didn't do it. All of my reactions are he did not and could not but I can't know.
The partner has a reputation for drama, creating crises for attention but you just never really know.

Oh joy, the 'I went through it and it never affected me one bit' type of poster. This really is just thinly veiled minimisation and I really hope Seni does not come back to perpetuate yet more myths

How would your friend's experience have been improved by being anonymous in the media?

Funny how stats prove only 35 women in the space of about 16 months made up rape allegations. It seems every single one of them has been posted about on this thread. Maybe, just maybe, these women were telling the truth? Or maybe they weren't, and in that case it is still wrong to say "false allegation" unless it was proven.

I think Ask hit the nail on the head - no amount of law changes will stop names being let slip in local communities, gossip and judgement will alwayshappen about both victims and the accused.

I've noticed by local police Facebook page has posted about how a disabled man has been attacked twice on the space of 2 weeks. The comments are (rightly) full of outrage. Can everyone honestly say that if a woman was raped twice in the space of two weeks, there'd be fully supportive comments believing her?

And just to counter where people have said those accused but not convicted have gone on to be harassed etc, its certainly not the case the country over. Here is the story of a teacher who flashed his erection at a woman in the local swimming pools. The jury took just 37 minutes to convict him. Not only did people support him (including his colleagues and pupils and parents of pupils speaking to the papers) people launched a petition for a re-trial because he was such a good teacher, his wife is attractive and the victim (who was with her children) is a lying bitch what did she expect in a mixed changing room?

www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/Hundreds-sign-petition-demanding-Carlisle-pools-flasher-retrial-c1a1ef90-090a-42e5-9c70-41b1f5feeba0-ds

Here's the petition with some truly revolting victim blaming going on in the comments

www.change.org/p/judge-peter-hughes-alisdair-wilson-court-case

If people think that rape victims don't also get harassed they are very mistaken, sadly. :-(

It is a myth that you can tell whether someone is a rapist on the basis of whether they're normally a nice guy. But lots of people believe it, which is why they insist that their friend must have been faslely accused.

Look at how Brock Turner's friends and family behaved - they wrote letters minimising what he'd done and blaming his victim. That's pretty much the norm - rapists are usually supported by their families.

My rapist was convicted but I'm sure his family refer to him as being falsely accused. They all turned up to support him every day in court, even at sentencing, and it was clear they thought I was a liar.