To be a bit sick of constantlyse reading about how awful teenage boys are?

[lostoldlogin2]

Recently it seems to be a constant theme that girls need to effectively be protected from teenage boys.....and the comments are sweeping. The suggestion seems to be that boys are constantly being terribly sexually aggressive to girls. I teach in Spain. Now I teach primary but before I was teaching secondary.....and this really wasn't a theme.....barely happened at all...the kids just got on with life and did all the normal boyfriend/girlfriend type stuff in an age appropriate way....talk of groups of 15 year old boys holding down girls and touching them, "hounding " girls for sex, grabbing their breasts and vulva in the school corridors?????? Never saw it.....and if it had happened it would have been seriously shocking. I do not know....it seems as if boys are being painted as monsters. I have a son and another son in the way.....it makes me sad to hear the constant vilification of male CHILDREN.

user1471598829 god user, that's awful. I am so sorry you and your daughter are going through this.

Can I come and live in your universe Moonface? Is all the porn men and boys being humiliated by women and girls? Is there a page 3 and girls mags with scantily clad Trev from Norwich? Are men and boys paid less in your universe? Are there hundreds of different names to belittle men and boys but none for women?

I live with teenage boys and they are absolutely fine. The only one of all the children who was at all difficult as a teenager was female.

Maybe in Moonfaces world 1 in 10 men are raped or experience sexual violence too?

I have never, ever, ever seen a thread or post on here saying that all boys are evil little shitbags and all girls are absolute paragons of virtue

No. Nobody would say it like that, would they? But...

I have seen a thread where two 16 year olds had consensual sex after a party. The mother of the boy (who posted asking about MAP) was told her son was by definition a rapist (because the girl must have been drunk and therefore unable to give consent).

I have seen the thread where the 17 year old boy got his 15 year old girlfriend pregnant - also a rapist.

I have seen the thread where the year 2 boy pulled down another boy's trousers while playing and was called a sexual predator.

I have seen a poster being urged to call the police because a group of teenage boys were playing football on a summer evening in the park as their laughter and shouting was intimidating.

I have seen multiple threads where parents of teenage sons have been urged to disown or chuck out onto the streets their son for a whole range of irritating but fairly mild teenage behaviour from slamming doors to coming in later than agreed.

Nobody says all boys are evil shitbags but the assumption is they are. In any situation where there is a teenage male/ female context the majority of threads contain more than one perjorative statement about teenage boys. This pervasive attitude is not good for boys or girls.

I have been a secondary school teacher for 35 years and to be honest, the boys now are no different than they were 30 years ago on the whole. Most are actually taught more about relationships and respect now than they ever were back then. I actually see a lot of respect for girls and much more by way of mixed sex friendships nowadays than I ever did in the 80's. It was very much boys in one corner and girls in the other in those days.

However, that is not to say there aren't problems in this area. It rather depends on the type of area and school as to how bad the problem can be. I have taught very troubled and streetwise teens at inner city schools where many teenage boys are the man of the house and always have been due to lack of a father figure/father in prison. Others have witnessed horrendous DV by their fathers against their mothers or have had to listen to drunken rows and abuse themselves. The way some talk in front of their own mothers is horrendous at times. Some of them clearly do not like being told what to do and certainly not by a woman. Their mothers are frightened of them. Some of the girls in these schools can have a hard time of it from a sexual calling and therefore abuse perspective.

My last school was in Oxfordshire and it was nowhere near the same as the school that I taught in Manchester so those that say they can't understand the problem probably haven't experienced as many ends of the spectrum. There is a problem but it is not widespread and not every boy is a sex pest. However there are some and it is more likely to be a boy than a girl from my experience.

Internet porn is a growing problem though. Even kids you would never imagine are watching this from a very young age. I would implode all parents to keep an eye on what children are viewing online because it is becoming a widespread issue and is this is not area/school dependant.

haff

This is the problem, if i could be arsed (which i cant ) i could find threads in which girls are "the evil little shitbags"

I am obviously paraphrasing, i am sure no one on mumsnet would actually use this phrase about children

haff

I do understand what you are saying in your final paragraph but i have read threads in which the girls were bullying the boys

Might be different with a sexual connotation

this thread is worth a read. I would direct people particularly to the fantastic Fantome's posts, starting with her one at 10.14. She is a 16 year old school girl.

What haff and myfav said.

Upthread lumpspacedprincess pointed out that teenage boys were blameworthy because they use porn.

Now, the more sensible view is that it is the responsiblity of parents and those in government to protect all children (which is what teenage boys are) from the effects of porn - rather than blaming boys for reacting in a biologically predicable way when faced with it. Her comment is in fact just an example of what the OP is complaining of.

But this thread shows that many parents of boys refuse to believe that their sons could possibly be negatively affected by porn and might be the ones causing girls no end of trouble. I wonder how many parents have seen the kind of porn that is freely available on the Internet. I have, and I can't unsee it, unfortunately. If you haven't seen it then it's got to be quite difficult to have any kind of in depth discussion with your teenaged sons about exactly how damaging it is.

I don't yet have a teenager, but so many times I've heard mums of boys (I have a DD) say, with regard to the teenage years, 'God, I'm so pleased I don't have a girl', thus immediately displaying how none of the things that can and will negatively affect girls is anything to do with them and their sons. If only.

RiverTam

I agree with what you say. However, my point is that being exposed to porn is not the fault of boys. It's the responsiblity of society to keep them away from it. Porn harms boys: it hinders them from being able to strike up good relations with girls, and when they are a bit older, women. In that sense they absolutely are victims. So, of course, are girls. In a discussion like this there is a risk of turning into a game of Victim Top Trumps (I'm not suggesting you did this) and that does obscure the fact that boys are victims too and, as children, require our protection.

If boys keep this a secret from their parents, so much the worse for everyone.

BTW, I have daughters who will soon reach their teens, and while I am very mindful of the dangers of the Internet and the effect it has on boys I am not particularly troubled about their future as long as I can equip them to cope with the things that will come their way.

Absolutely, porn is damaging for everyone, but it's women and girls who are - the subject of it? If that makes sense? Not sure if I've got the right word there. The damage is imposed on them secondhand, if you like. They aren't the ones looking at the porn, after all, but it's impact is felt by them. Because boys feel they have the right to impose it. Did you read the thread I linked to? It is very interesting, if depressing, reading.

I find it interesting that on MN, at any rate, whilst most women seem to be in agreement with regard to the negative affect porn has on men, they seem very reluctant to see the negative effect it has on their children, and also themselves.

Yes, it makes perfect sense and I totally agree with what you say. This has happened because porn has become normalised in our culture. The result is all manner of bad effects caused to girls, too numerous to discuss here. I haven't read the thread you linked to, but I have seen others like it and they are, as you say, very depressing.

I hope the following isn't mansplaining (I'm male: I like toad in the hole and cook it a lot).

The viewpoint I come from is that the average boy wants to know how to get on with people around him, and that includes girls as well as other boys. I don't mean to suggest by this that anyone is perfect or that there aren't people who will just turn out bad, but by and large we all want functional rather than dysfunctional relationships, and the same is true of boys. Porn, of course, gets in the way of this just at the stage that boys' relationships with girls changes due to puberty. If it causes a boy (who will of course grow into a man) that's bad for him, and it is also bad for women too. The fact that the boy does not realise that porn's bad news for him does not change this.

At school I was short and scrawny and never felt terribly masculine. I always got on well with girls (not that I dated many, but I have managed to marry) and even now have many close female friends. I remember how derogatory boys could be about girls and, more recently, how men can be about women, but I there's always been a voice in me that says but it doesn't have to be this way.