AIBU to think this is a bit unfair\dodgy?

[TeddyBear7]

Hi there - really need some advice please. Re-posting as I accidentally posted on wrong thread! Hope this is the right place but if not please tell me where I can get some advice on what to do

My DD applied to work in our local independent coffee shop and was given a 6 hour trial shift. After this, the employer offered her the job saying that she would need to do a barista course costing £80. Meanwhile she also worked 2 additional shifts. When DD asked about being paid for the trial shift she was told "no, we don't pay for trial shifts". He also added that it was his right to retain half her first week's wages "as a deposit" - but he has yet to pay her for any of the shifts she has worked because "I only pay at the end of the week" (which he hasn't done so far). Additionally, he is saying that he will only pay for the barista course if she stays with him for 6 months. She doesn't have £80 to pay for it herself - that's the whole point of her finding work!

What I would like to know is: AIBU to think he doesn't have the right to withhold pay for a 6 hour trial shift? I thought if anyone works longer than 3 hours they have to get paid?

And AIBU to think it's unfair\unusual to retain half the first week's wages?

And AIBU to expect him to pay up front for the barista course (fine to take it out of wages if she leaves within six months)

And finally AIBU to expect DD to be paid promptly for the work she has done thus far? It seems he is dodging her every time she asks.

Any advice as to how to approach this situation greatly appreciated.

I think yabu to expect them to pay her for trial shift - presumably she was more of a hindrance than a help. But I don't know the legal things.

I do think it's not OK to retain half the first week's wages, though! What's that about? Deposit for what!?

I'd say OK to ask her to pay for the barista course - if he put lots of people on it and they all left within a few months, he'll be very out of pocket for not much in return. Taking it out of her wages would be kinder of him than asking for it up front, but can't you lend her the money for the course? Or pay for her as a 'congratulations on getting the job' present?

Or maybe look elsewhere for work - it doesn't bode well if he's making a fuss about when to pay her. Isn't he setting up PAYE? What about a contract?

Honestly, unless your daughter is desperate (and maybe even then) I would tell her to run a fucking mile. If he's this bad already, it's only going to get worse.

Your daughter is very unlikely to ever see that first half's wages, either way- deposit for what?!

Pay for the course yourself if you can afford it, then she can get a job in any coffee shop I guess. Tell the boss she wants her FULL weeks wages in the usual pay cycle (week in hand or whatever ) and watch him like a hawk. If he pulls any stunts tell him to shove his job, and bad mouth him all over town

I don't understand what you mean by withholding the half the first weeks money? Surely he is paying 'in hand' (arrears) anyway? Up to a month in arrears if he said he was paying monthly...(Although iirc you can't actually not give them what they have earned if they do just not turn up again...)
I think he probably has had lots of problems with irresponsible no shows.
I completely get why he won't pay for the course -but then I don't understand why he doesn't do the training himself as I would imagine he could do? Unless you need a certificate or something? And at least your DD will have an extra 'qualification' if she needs to find similar work in the future...

The law states that the maximum allowed time for a trial shift is 2 hours.

I'm guessing this guy is a small business owner rather than a chain or brand?

You could try to get the money through legal channels but if I'm honest I'd tell him to fuck off and get work elsewhere. If he's already withholding pay it's unlikely to go well further down the line.

Thank you for your replies. He wants her to do the course this Friday but I am strapped for the money this month if I'm honest - it will mean going overdrawn and I'm already struggling. She's quite happy for him to pay up front for her and take it out of wages - he probably owes her that much by now anyway - at least!!

I can understand he probably has had unreliable staff in the past but I do think it's taking advantage to not pay for work that has been done - it's hardly getting off to the right start on trust terms and if he is plagued with staff who leave at the drop of a hat then I'm starting to understand why this might be so!

I don't know how to suggest she approaches him about getting paid. She needs to get that money even if she decides to run a mile!

Ok so basically would this be a good way forward? :-

1. Find the money to do the barista course off her own back, then if she leaves she will have that training in hand.

1. Clarify WTF the "deposit" is for.

1. Question his right to withhold pay for the extra 4 hours of the trial shift

1. Ask to be paid for the other 2 shifts before she does any other work

1. If he resists any of the above, tell him to F.O. Would secretly love to do that anyway but we are desperate for the extra money!

I'd advise her to walk tbh. If he's being this difficult now imagine being ill or taking a holiday?
Point her in the direction of her local college where they can help with apprenticeships. DD is on a full time wage with one day a week college.

Just read back that you are desperate for the money though.

I agree with those saying to advise her to leave, I think this guy will treat your DD badly, this doesn't bode well. £80 sounds a ridiculous amount for a 'course' bloody hell she's making coffee not performing surgery! My DD has a job in a cafe and they've shown her how to use the equipment for free, which is what I would expect. I would tell him myself that I expect wages due to her be paid immediately and that she won't be returning. I hate the way some people exploit young adults when all they're trying to do is earn an honest wage.

I know companies are allowed to do un paid "trial" shifts but I don't like the idea, it's just a way of getting free labour isn't it really.

As for keeping half her wage as "deposit" fuck that!

Unless she is absolutely desperate for a job, tell her to run!

Did the owner state weekly pay? Monthly pay is pretty much the status quo.
Holding a weeks wages is pretty normal as employers usually hold this incase workers go over their holiday amount and quit.
Maybe the owner is holding the money for a deposit for the course.

Don't let her work for him! It'd be so horrible for her. You can tell already. Tell her to put it off for now maybe and apply for royal mail Xmas jobs or retail Xmas jobs. They're hiring loads of people now.
Why the hell would he be keeping half her first weeks wages btw? I wanna know what that's about. He probably thinks she's young and stupid and also taking advantage of how desperately she needs a job right now. I met loads of employers like that when I was younger. Worked for one, swore I wouldn't again. Then worked for another when I was desperate. I ended up leaving both quickly obviously.

Thank you. Tbh I feel like crying. She's applied for loads of jobs and this was the only thing to come out of it. We had high hopes as it was local and he seemed like such a nice man (from a customer p.o.v). I'm not very assertive so would dread having to go down there. But it looks like I'll have to as I'm not having him exploit her like this. She's a hard worker and wouldn't have let him down. All we're trying to do is earn some money.

I also hate "trial" shifts, it's just a way for cheeky fucking businesses to get free staff.

As for keeping her wage as a "deposit" they can shove that where the sun doesn't shine.

Does she have a written contract? Any way of proving she actually works there.

Where to you live OP? If in a town/city is there not many Christmas jobs she could apply for? DS done one part time around his college hours last year and they've kept him on part time since then

I'd be tempted to tell your DD to walk away

If you live near any Royal Mail place, there sorting Christ,as jobs are extra easy to get my DD does nights for them every year she's been at uni

I'd strongly advise you to walk.

I run a restaurant, and although we do use trial shifts it's never for free labour but as a genuine chance to see peoples attitude during work, i.e are they going to moan about cleaning, doing bins etc, are they to shy to talk to guests, can they use their initiative or do they stand around like a lemon. Especially when dealing with youngsters this is so useful as they often don't have much experience they can expand on in an interview. In actual fact even with people we end up hiring the trial shift is normally more of a hinderance than a help as they really haven't a clue.

However I'm curious what course he is sending her on, do you have a link to it? Is it something he runs himself?

Don't tell her to quit & don't go down there yourself - what is that going to teach her? She has nothing to lose by going & talking to him and everything to gain. He will either respect her approach or tell her to 'do one'. Either way she's no worse off and she has had some valuable experience.

1. Find out if the two hour only trial thing is correct, if it is, get her to say to him 'I did the first two hours for free, as is standard, but the other 4 were not for free as employment law states a max of 2 hours free labour for a trial'.

1. She can say something like 'I would love to do the course on Friday, but I can't afford to pay for it upfront at such short notice. As you owe me 4 hours from the trial session and two further shifts, that should cover it'.

Let her learn from this, if nothing else.

I suspect that if she goes there alone he will fob her off, he is obviously trying it on moneywise and thinks he can do this because she is young. If you go OP he might well listen to you, people like this don't like picking on someone their own size/age.

Thank you, everyone. user all I know is that the course is in east London which means travel to pay on top of the £80!

Rosie he has said he wants her to be contracted for 6 months before he will pay it back. I think 3 months would be fairer.

I will talk all this through with her tonight and see how she feels.

Thank you all for all your advice. Xx