to not let five-year-old child go on school trip into central London

[Blueflowers2011]

as title says, Year 1 (age 5 mostly) are going on a trip into London, which consists of 30 children and supervising adults travelling on 1 rail train, interchange to 1 underground tube train then a 20 min walk when they get to the other side to visit a shop.

A couple of parents are now saying they are not allowing their child to go which is also confirming my thoughts initially, which btw is mostly due to anything happening in London in general.

I have worked in London all my life and it's bad enough travelling on the tube everyday as an adult, let alone a 5 yr old child. Many parents also feel it's an unneccassary trip at this age just to visit a shop and how it works.

I encourage most things and experiences for my children but just feel this one is a bit too much for a 5 yr old. Am I worrying too much or should I just let them go?

Volunteer to be a parent helper.

Absolutely no chance id let a 5 year old go on that trip ! how many supervising adults ? id expect 1 adult to 2 children in the Scenario.

Its absolutely unnecessary ! Too busy too crowded !

Yes terrorism is unlikely but still.....

Im taking the kids to EuroDisney on Friday, happy with the trip apart from being at CDG airport - its a target.

When DD2 was at nursery in Glasgow, they did a trip to Edinburgh which involved a walk, bus, train and then another walk.

I went as a parent helper. Each adult had 2 kids in their care. We didn't lose any despite going on public transport and the only issue was trying to carry the sleepy ones off the bus when we got back.

Just let him go. It's unfair for a child to miss out on a great experience because of a parent's ridiculous fears.

I'm pretty sure that for any school trip for children of that age you have to have at least 1 teacher / assistant per two children, so your child would never be in a situation where there wasn't a designated adult to look after them / keep an eye on them.
For schools to plan / arrange trips like this, they have to do numerous risk assessments etc, so the children will be fine.
Its up to you if you do / don't allow your child to go, but personally, I wouldn't worry!

Its absolutely unnecessary ! Too busy too crowded!

Compared to what? A half term museum? A weekend soft play?
Some extraordinary neurosis on this thread

Fortnum

Everywhere is a target.

Personally I think the terrorists are much more likely to strike next somewhere innocuous where security is low, like a supermarket.

Bloody hell. I've been a parent helper in a year 1 trip. Each adult had 4 kids in pairs with the most lively with the teachers ( both of whom take no shit). The leader had, in her own time, assessed the journey several times ensuring that walking between bus stops was kept to a minimum etc. it was absolutely fine.

I also helped in Reception (2 children per adult) and am helping on a year 2 trip next week.

Oh, and it's always 100% take up.

My children are adults now but I helped regularly from when they were little. Outside trips were always well organised - I usually had four or five children including my own and after a few years often one of the slightly more troublesome boys. However by then I had been helping in school for some years and the teacher(s) knew I didn't stand any nonsense and that he always behaved better for me! We always had a fantastic time and never lost a child or had any major accidents (one child once managed to walk against some nettles and got stung but I don't really think that is major). YABVU not to let your child go as they will love the experience and will feel really left out when the others get back and are talking about it if you don't.

When I studied in central London there were school children in trains and buses every. Single. Day. Loads of them. On school trips too. Yabvu.

I grew up in London, have commuted on the tube and still live within easy travelling distance. I am certainly not squeamish about the tube/London and travel regularly with my young dc. I have helped on lots of school trips (not central London yet).

But I would worry about this. Not about terrorism or other disaster scenarios, but simple things like a child getting left on the wrong side of the tube doors, wandering off, getting lost, stumbling on the escalators - all of which could range from v serious to (more likely) a nasty scare for the child.

I don't know how reasonable these fears are, but they are real to me, so unless I could go along as a helper or the ratios were very tight (like, 3-1), I would be very hesitant to give permission. It is each parent's job to make decisions for their own child for better or for worse, and I doubt that their education would be harmed by missing a single trip.

That said, I would base this on the information the school give me. I would let them go under the right circumstances, and as lots of pps say, plenty of children do just that every day.

Wrapping kids up in cotton wool to avoid something with a 1 in a hundred million chance of happening is insane.

Your kids are exposed to a million things every day that are objectively, statistically more dangerous.

I think your child would miss out on a great learning experience if you refuse to let him go. Re: tube safety - Teachers will often make kids link hands as they board tubes, and board them in 'batches' with adults so nobody gets lost if anyone's too slow. A 20minute walk should also be easily doable by a 5 year old.

By child knows the local park AND the tube map by heart. He also knows the Paris tube map by heart (we travel to Paris a lot). He loves trains and for his birthday asked we take every single mode of transportation in London. Significantly more fun for him than a park.

We are in Central London every weekend- there are museums, things to do, concerts, huge parks (which from where we live requires a...shock, horror...Tube journey to get to). Or the Transport Museum, which again requires a Tube journey. Actually, this will really upset some posters- my kid goes to school on the Tube. We live bang next to one station, the school is bang next to the next stop on the District Line. We could take the bus but the roads are crazy in the morning, so amazingly we get on the Tube and 'commute' to school. Clearly I'm scarring him for life with this.

It's a mode of transportation- like a car. Why are people so afraid of it? I am so baffled by this. There are people who live in the countryside (like my sister) whose kids have been making long car journeys ever since they were very tiny. They have no choice because they live in a very rural place. The chances of an accident in that car on those rural roads are probably much greater than a terrorist attack in London. I don't see anyone suggesting that people in rural areas shouldn't be driving their children around?! I actually find the winding roads and the cars travelling at top speed really terrifying but I'm not going to suggest to my sister that she and her brood stay indoors all the time or that we never step out when we visit her.
Why do big cities induce such neuroses?! And when my niece and nephew go on school trips their school coach has to navigate those crazy roads as well.

My daughter is coming up to two and travels on the tube regularly, she loves it (although big red buses elicit even more excitement).

She has somehow coped with days out at the NHM, Tate Modern, The Science Museum, Museum of London, and the Transport Museum so far, hopefully she won't be completely jaded by the time school day trips happen.

Admittedly I live and work in London, so maybe I'm just a bit blase but seriously, some of you really need to get a grip.

Going into Central London is no different to going to your local busy shopping mall or town centre really, apart from being a hell of a lot more interesting.

Lost my wifi at home so thanks all for your replies, back on now!
I have read all of your messages, it made me reflect why I was worried.

To summarise - I am a Londoner, have been communting into town since I was 18, love London. But the tube/trains are a different story for me in terms of getting caught up in or outside the doors, crowds, dodgy people (and there are loads), I was caught up in the 7/7 bombings at Kings Cross also and it's never been the same since for me, but I still commute as I would not allow it to stop me. And yes, the 'impending' threat to London is certainly there, my workplace is made aware of any threats as and when they happen as they need to be high security, so i am aware of some of these details too.

My other worry is my 5 yr old boy is more than capable of trying to show off to his classmates by doing something stupid like going near the platform edge when asked not to. But he does also listen very well to his teachers so he may behave ok.

Parents can only be helpers to children in a different class - not their own.

Both me and OH are very easy going and let our children experience whatever they can so that's why this one is bothering me. Not allowing him to go goes against my principles, I think my worries have got the best of me. Both our boys are always up for an adventure.

We have taken them into London many times, they have absolutely no sense of danger at this age (5 and 3) but they have experience of the tube.

BTW the shop is Hamleys to the person who mentioned earlier - i do see it as a bit pointless but guess they are studying toys this term. And yes I know DS1 will love this trip.

Thanks for making me sit down and rationalise it inside me head, I will let him go although I will still worry, but if i dont it will only make me regret it for a very long time when most of his classmates are talking about it, plus it's a good experience.

7 parents have opted not to allow theirs to go so far, and it's actually all the parents who commute into London everyday.

Going into Central London is no different to going to your local busy shopping mall or town centre

Actually, yes it is. It is safer than your local shopping mall or town centre. London has practised for every foreseeable situation that could arise, we are prepared for a terrorist attack, we have military personnel that have been moved into London, and most Londoners know that it's totally cool to report anything suspicious.

(Virgin Trains up North on the other hand thought it was totally cool leave the big army style backpack that had been dumped on my table there without doing sweet FA about it. I moved carriages. It took them 2 hours to realise it could be serious.) In London, someone leaves a bag a foot away from them and it is likely to get reported.

I think you should do what you feel comfortable with. I would urge you to let your child go. School trips are memorable but I understand why you're nervous. It's unfair to be called neurotic or patronised just because others don't understand what you're feeling.
I grew up in zone 1 and my parents still live there. We live in another continent now so visits are rare but my youngest is obsessed with London buses and tubes. He sometimes does find London very overwhelming and can become withdrawn and want to go home. We went to the Natural History Museum one day when it was really busy. He didnt enjoy it so we went back on a quieter day. When it's crowded and noisy it can go from being an experience to some people's idea of hell.
I've been on a few London trips as a teacher and parent when we lived there. There is nothing to worry about. It's much more stressful on your own with your own children.

It'll be fine. When ds was in Y1 they had fortnightly trips to central London, getting trains and changing. They all get marshaled effectively and the stations are warned however many kids are coming through and it works remarkably well. Just seeing Central London and huge stations is educational for the kids who haven't (and tjose who've never paid attention before).
By Y1 the teachers know the kids, the kids know English and how to behave, the school will have done risk assessments - they'll love it!

The kids won't get separated from the group on the tube. They can get a member of staff to assist them on/off the train and if they travel in the front carriage, as they should then the driver can be told where they are getting off and we wait to make sure they are all off. Every day we transport large parties of school children around London and they all seem to be very well managed and behaved. I've never seen one messing about close to the edge of a platform, and if one was there is still a driver on the front who can slow right down or on an automatic line apply the emergency brake if they think the kid is too close to the edge. Using the tube is probably the easiest part of the day.

I'm glad that you have thought about what it is that makes you worried. I think the whole 'showing off' thing is a good point but the teachers will really really be on the ball and there will be TFL staff to help. Hamleys is a hell hole though and I'd be more worried about Hamleys than the Tube! I last went there a year ago I think and found it so claustrophobic and crowded that I beat a hasty retreat.

I would never belittle someone's worries. I find flying very stressful but then I was in a plane where the engines on a Boeing 747 caught fire. I KNOW the chances of that happening again are beyond minuscule but I still worry. It doesn't mean I don't travel (I have to, for work and family) but it's not my favourite pastime in the world.

Actually, I'll give you another example. I used to be a Professor in an American University a few years ago before moving back to the UK, and of course there is always the danger of classroom violence and shooting. When Virginia Tech happened I was really panicked- I'd been teaching in a classroom in an area not far from VT and the thought that it could have been me, in my classroom, overwhelmed me. I spent the next academic year checking out the exits whenever I walked into a classroom. I remember telling a colleague who had a 'are you nuts??' look on his face. But as I pointed out to him, I was still teaching, I was still going about my business, but my threat perception had changed. I was willing to logically think through it in my head and take precautions (so for instance, the OP could have a chat with the school about measures in place to reassure her), but it is always useful to evaluate WHY we are afraid of something.

I'm always intrigued at how people know exactly what decisions all other parents are making and even where they all work. Did you all have a big meeting about it?

I find London scary and I'm in my 30s. I've been twice in my life. I'd take my DD but that'd be a 1:1 adult:child ratio. What is the ratio for the trip? 5? 8? 13? I don't think I'd refuse the trip if all her friends were going as they'd probably have a great time BUT I would be very anxious about it.

?? BitoutofPractice, all parents know each other in my childs class, very social group and we have a class Whatsapp group too which keeps everyone in the loop with anything and everything. That's how we all know!

Commuting into London is different. They will not be going on those jam packed tubes.
I used to organise and take kids on trips. And honestly, although it was stressful as the adult in charge, it was easier with little kids than older kids.
I am amazed at those who are scared of tube trains, escalators or London itself. It is simply a City.