To think the benefit cap is going to plunge families into poverty

[Firsttheworst]

Next month the benefit cap comes in. It sets out the maximum that can be claimed in a week across all benefits. This doesn't include disability or wtc. Its aimed purely at women (mostly) claiming income support. You can only claim income support if you have a child under 5 and don't work.

The benefit cap is in the government owns words designed to get IS claimants out to work. The cap is currently £500 and will be reduced to £384 a week.

This includes, housing benefit, CT benefit, tax credits, income support. So all in total cannot be more than £384 a week. Over a 30 day month that comes to £1645.

From that £1645 I need to pay

rent £900 a month (no I can't move, its impossible to rent on benefits as it is, not giving this house up and its below market rent as it is)

CT - £60 a month

Electricity £80

Oil £80

Diesel £ 120 (rural don't drive anywhere other than school runs and supermarket/town once or twice a week)

Car insurance £49

Car tax £19.99

Phone/internet £40 (thats a basic mobile and broadband)

House insurance £13

TV licence £11

That leaves 272 a month to pay for food, clothes, car breakdown, school trips, birthdays, miscellaneous and god knows what else. For one adult and 3 children.

AIBU to think that the government have just decided that if they starve us out for long enough we'll be forced to go out and find a job? Like I said rural area so jobs are rarer than hens teeth and believe me i'm looking. It is pure discrimination against single mothers with small children (i doubt many men claim income support)

YANBU at all, but in your situation, I would be looking at Housing Association properties in a different area, and also possible jobs as a housemistress in a boarding school (for example see here: www.jobs.lady.co.uk/job/detail/id/3534) as they come with accommodation and you get paid more than you would get in benefits. But then I tend towards the pragmatic.

user- really? So why do you keep saying I should pay the OP direct??

You are not disagreeing with me because then we would be discussing the tax system. Not you suggesting over and over that I send the OP a 400 quid cheque each month.

£1645 is more than my DP earns and he works full time!
This is just ridiculous

While i sympathise that it's hard op, when I outline the support British people get to people in the States (where you get NOTHING) some of them actually think I'm making it up.

If you here and not working you'd be fucked. And having said that a lot of families I know living in the UK have all the kids sharing a room and parent/s sleeping in the living room, especially those in the SE.

As always the case mention benenfits on MN and its instant bashing, this forum is meant to be supportive and yes I understand this is in AIBU but seriously mention benefits and out come the mouth frothers to give people shit, instead of bashing the OP how bout bashing the employers, or the government that wont go after the tax dodgers but no, way way fuckin easier sitting in your naice ivory towers bashing others.

What's really noticeable is how many of the bashers specify that they're on lowish wages themselves.

I do have sympathy for your predicament OP. The only way I could afford to move as a LP was borrowing deposit from family. The problem here is your ex. I'd be telling him he pays up or takes residency of the children whilst you get on your feet. If he had the children that would free you up to look for work, once you have a job you'll be able to move. Have you tried using CMS? I have experience of a self employed ex and they agreed he was massively under declaring and advised me to report him to hmrc for tax evasion. I would advise you do the same.

I'm only going to say this once more. I wasn't on benefits when I had the children. What would you like me to do? Sell them now I can't support them?

"I think what people are reacting to is you saying that just under £17,000 a year coming in when you're in a 3 bed house and running a car is being plunged into poverty. When many people are living on much less and working."

If you are four people living on 17K a year in a rural area, paying 10K a year in rent, you are living in poverty.

It doesn't matter whether you are working or claiming benefits. You're living in poverty and so are your children.

In what sense is it OK for anyone to be in this situation, in one of the richest countries in the world?

The OP's problems would be solved if we had a decent supply of affordable public housing, and decent public transport, but this government (and previous labour governments to a lesser extent) have thoroughly neglected investing in the things which would actually reduce people's dependency on benefits and lift them out of poverty while working. Oh, and if any bloody government put some serious thought into forcing absent fathers to take responsibility for their children's upkeep, and then acted decisively to make it happen.

The support network doesn't seem to be doing much for her at the moment. She lives in the middle of nowhere and doesn't mention any help off anyone.

The link I posted above (www.dssmove.co.uk) has dozens of 3 bedroom houses with rent under £600 pm in northern cities within walking distance of schools/shops/other facilties where the OP can work.

Or our local housing associations have a bidding system for social housing - my niece got a house within a few weeks on that system in the centre of a nice small town with all facilities, so no need for a car.

Moving will be an upheaval but the alternative of sitting around on benefits moaning about how hard done by she is doesn't sound great either so the OP needs to work out how to do something about it - there are deposit schemes for rent - perhaps the CAB or Shelter can advise?

'Sorry to sound like i'm being rude but do you know how they work? Nobody gets housed unless they are homeless or medical need. There is no 'council house list' anymore. It doesn't work like that. I could ask my landlord to kick me out, then make him go to court to evict me, then present myself as homeless at the council offices, then make them put me up in a B&B for a few months until they find me a house. Thats about the only way I would get a house.'

And then they put you in another private let with your having to top up the rent. There is no 'council house' anymore in many, many, many areas.

I understand your frustration and feel for you, OP. We all pick the lifestyle (incl house) we can afford and the goalposts have been moved for you. You budgeted for what you used to have and now feel stuck.

Think long-term. I bet the cap will come down further still. Move, even if it means going to a poor urban area into a 1 bed for a while, moving in with your parents, whatever. Difficult, but temporary if you move where the jobs are. It will become less affordable, I cannot see the government do anything but cut further and prices are sure to rise sharpish, too.

rebecca - you say you are happy to support the OP, fact is you don't pay enough tax to do so, therefore you are also saying that you are happy for others to support the OP. Many of us are not happy to see high levels of cash benefits as evidenced by this thread and many others. That is the point.

Believe me I know all about expats area and jobs are fucking scarce. My dh is a GP there and a huge amount of his work is writing reports for families who just aren't coping. Life is hard in many places - remote rurL Scotland is something v most don't even know about.
I'm sure OP really struggled. Rural life isn't easy. Oil instead of gas for a start really hurts.

£1645 is more than my DP earns and he works full time!
This is just ridiculous

It's not OP's fault that your DP's earnings are modest!

What do you earn?

its shit having a womb

Oh please - speak for yourself as you're certainly not speaking for me and I have one of my own. It's never stopped me supporting myself or my family.

To everyone saying "that's more than I/DP/DH earn!" well I can almost guarantee that you're forgetting to count things like tax credits into your calculations. Nobody is better off on benefits. OP wants to work - that is obvious. But when she's in an area she's unable to move from, that's difficult. She'd need a deposit for a new place, money to fund the move, money to fund potential things like new uniforms for kids and all sorts of other expenses, which is impossible when you're living on the breadline.

No, I'm not. I take home £1540 pm I'm entitled to £11.75 pw WTC and £20 child benefit. That's £1677 per month. And I work, in a professional job, 40hrs per week and have to pay £800 a month in child car (full time nursery placement, at the cheapest I can find).

Can I ask a quick question.

Quite a few of you have said, my DH works, my DP works etcetc. Presumably you don't work and you're a SAHM because obviously we all know childcare takes most of your money if you're in a low paid job.

So what exactly would you do if your DH came home tonight and said he was leaving you? Literally walked out tonight? What would you do tomorrow? How would you pay the bills?

Take your family out of the equation and any savings you've built up, how would you survive?

Another YABU from me too DP and I both work and bring home only slightly more than that, we aren't entitled to tax credits as we are £60 a year over the cut off amount and we have rent and bills to pay plus we both need cars for our jobs (both jobs require the use of a car so we couldn't even commute by bus or train and get rid of even 1 car)

Fluff. Is that because you also have a husband who works and earns money?

minifingerz by what definition is the op living in poverty?

Hi OP. I really sympathise with your situation. It sounds incredibly stressful.
I'm not sure if the exact set up but dropping your children at school seems to be using up a lot of your time/money. Could you see if there is anybody you could lift share with? Either you do the drop offs/ pick ups 50:50 or they pay you to do them all. We used to Di thus when I lived rurally. Or perhaps there us somebody who regularly drives to the town, parks and takes a train from town to the city? You could come up with a mutual agreement which would save them money and earn some for yourself.

Leaving to pick up children now. Not running away from the thread. Back in an hr or so

OP - No. That's me on my own - something I had to deal with last month.

What do you think would be a reasonable income OP? And for how long?.

First my mother wasn't on benefits when she had her children (me and brother) either...

She also wanted no maintenance from him and no contact, her choice.

her own mum (my grandma) when my brother had asthma (we had oil heaters as well as gas fires which were cut off at one point due to not working correctly) and almost died twice (brother) - when she rang her mum to ask for her help her mum said she'd pay for meters or something - her mum was a very wealthy woman!