to say something about a dog that 'bit' me?

[CorraLinn]

Today DH and I with our DD (2) and DS (6 months) went to see a house for sale. The lady owner was there but her DH was out. She had her 2 DS's with her (18 months and 12 weeks). When we arrived she opened the door and there were 2 dogs there - one fairly quiet and laid back and the other a bit hyper. She was holding the hyper one back by the collar so it didn't run out to us. We said it was fine as we're used to dogs (we had our own beloved dog pts in April as she was getting very old and sore and I used to work in animal welfare so am well used to dogs of all kinds).
She then showed us round the garden and the hyper dog ran around like a loon. We then all went back into the house. The quiet dog came for a pat then went to bed. Hyper dog followed us around - licked DD on the face a few times, wagged it's tail played with the owner's DS etc.
Near the end of the tour, we were all in the living room. I was kneeling down playing with my DD and the owner's older DS. The hyper dog came over and I turned around and patted it. Fine for a minute then it came at me and 'bit' my face. It got it's teeth around my nose and on my cheek. It didn't draw blood and didn't clamp down or growl but I got a terrible fright. I gasped and the owner definitely saw as she said 'Are you ok?' and immediately came and got the dog by the collar again and held it back.
I was in a bit of shock (not due to pain, just got a fright) and I was actually a bit embarrassed too (daft I know) so I just said I was fine and sort of laughed it off. She then said the dog was 'mad as a box of squirrels'. But we made our excuses and left sharpish and she kept sending the dog to bed as we were going and not letting it near us.
Once back in the car I had a look and I had red marks on my nose and cheeks but no broken skin and no pain but I could 'feel' where the teeth had been if know what I mean.
I'm surprised how shocked I was about it and I felt a bit shaky all the way home. I said to DH that I could never have a dog that I had seen do that in a house with young children and if that had been our dog I would have been putting it to sleep if I couldn't get it rehomed/retrained to be safer.
I'm now not sure what to do. Completely ignore it - after all there was no real harm done and it's not really my business what the owners do. Or say something to someone? I don't think it's really something I could report the to police as there was no real damage to me and after all, I said nothing at the time! But I was thinking that when the estate agent calls me for feedback I might say something about it.
Any thoughts?

If it had meant to bite you, it would've done. It doesn't sound vicious, but its owner needs to control it more effectively.

This is why I don't let mine interact with strangers, too many things that can go wrong and be interpreted different ways.

As someone experienced in dog behaviour it sounds like it got excited and mouthed. Some do 'snap' in over excitement and I do think if it wanted to hurt you it would do. Every dog I've worked with that warning snapped would have hurt it if caught you. My sister in laws does the snappy play bite thing and it's very annoying.

I would have thought if it was fearful you would have picked up on it sooner, especially if you know dogs. The vast majority of fearful dogs won't be playing one moment and snapping the next, plus it body language would have screamed fear at you enough so you wouldn't have touched it surely?

Saying that, I wouldn't be very impressed at all and suggest she keeps the dog away from visitors in future.

The dog was some kind of shorthaired pointer. As such I know it will be full of energy and need a lot walks and stimulation to keep it's behaviour as a family pet under control.

You have repeatedly referred to the dog 'biting' you but it didn't bite you did it? Had it done so, you would have broken skin, teeth marks, blood, bruising etc but you have none of those things.

I don't think you have to do anything as presumably you won't be returning to the house.

I don't agree with everyone saying it's fine. If the dog had done that to one of your children it could have been far worse. It shows at the very least a lack of respect but it smacks of lack of responsible pet ownership to me.

Good job it isn't your dog really isn't it?

It could be the best tempered dog with children who was a bit over excited with seeing strangers.

Only the owner knows that dogs true temperament

It sounds like you overstepped the mark in her teritory. i think it would be incredibly mean of you to say anything.

It could have just been mouthing with a poor bite inhibition, or possibly more likely a warning if you were playing with the little boy. Could it have been over protective?

There's a huge difference between playful mouthing and a half-warning clamp. It was unpredictable behaviour from a middle aged dog whose owner describes it as "mad as a box of frogs". On what basis is that puppying playful mouthing?!

I don't think the OP is being unreasonable at all, and I would definitely ring the agent and tell them about this. The house owner should definitely keep the dog away from viewers.

I'm not a fan of dogs so if I'd been viewing the house, I would have left pretty swiftly.
I think you need to mention it to the estate agent so that they can tell the owner to lock the dogs up during a viewing and/or warn prospective viewers.

The OP claims to know about dogs yet, on its territory, she got down to its level to pat it, i daresay making eye contact. This would would be very challenging for the dog and it sounds like he panicked.

I would write to the owner, tell her that you were in shock and that the dog's behaviour really needs to be sorted out. Include a couple of referrals trainers and suggest that it's muzzled and/or kept away from strangers.

That way, if you read in the paper that it ripped the face of a child, at least you know that you'd tried to help, and that the owner is aware of actually how bad her dog was. None of this 'mouthing' bollocks, it needs to stop acting aggressively around people.

Agree with LEM. The poor dog has his home territory invaded by people he doesn't know with young kids. Bloody nightmare for him. Can't believe you have worked in animal welfare and not realise that.

Theoriginal - I'm not sure how I overstepped the mark in her territory when I was invited in by the owner and did nothing but pat a dog who came over to see me and sat down next to me. I'm not sure how saying something to the agent would be mean - the owner saw the incident and the agent obviously can't do anything so nothing will come of it except that the lady may be more careful in future which surely is no bad thing?

statetrooper - the little boy had gone to the other side of the room by that point - had thought it might be being protective but don't think it was that

Thanks for all the replies - really mixed responses. I think that before I had kids I would have reacted a lot less strongly about this. I'm just really conscious now about how easy it would be for something to go wrong. It only takes once for something really bad to happen but usually there are warning signs along the way. Surely it's possible that the dog could also do this to kids and at the very least give them a fright.

Also, with regards the licking, posters are right, I should have been much more careful. I think I let my guard down as I just assumed that when the owner had 2 little kids herself that surely the dogs were absolutely fine.

I should also say that my mum's dog had to be pts a few years ago for biting. It was a cocker spaniel and developed Sudden Onset Aggression. It was a much loved family pet but it's biting escalated to the point that it had to be kept seperate from kids and visitors just in case. The day that it bit my dad completely unprovoked, flew at him and left him bleeding was when we decided. Heartbreaking. We looked at all sorts of rehoming options but were told it really wouldn't work with that kind of problem. Totally different from this I accept. My dad had terminal cancer and the dog was meant to keep him company and cheer him up. I am thinking that I will have been reminded about that today too and maybe that's made me overreact. I was surprised myself what a fright I got. But I do think the face is a bit different from a hand etc

Our puppy still mouths us and it fucking hurts. Just because it's not broken the skin doesn't mean it doesn't hurt or startle you when it happens

Op was kneeling down to play with two small children, not to get down to the dog's level.

Is it seriously normal, acceptable dog behaviour to mouth people's faces? Really?

Theoriginal - I didn't get down to the dogs level to pat it. I was down playing with the kids when the dog came over to me unbidden, wanting to be patted.

As I said earlier, mouthing isn't confined to puppies. Adult, untrained dogs can absolutely do it in excitement, over stimulation and fear. It wasn't a nip or a bite -I would say from the description more of a hold. I personally wouldn't have been comfortable with the dog running around like that and would have asked for it to be put on a lead or outside. Over excited dogs around small children is asking for an incident, accidental or not. A pointer can very easily knock a child of their feet, scratch at face height, mouth, pull over. I'm quite surprised that an experienced dog owner/handler like the op wouldn't anticipate this happening after the owner decribed the dog as mad and then witnessed it charging about. I've always told people to never put your face near a dogs face -especially if you don't know the dog. Kneeling at that height would put you at equal eye level which can seem aggressive and intimidating or exciting to a dog. I would absolute agree with speaking to the agent so the owner can be advised to secure the dog while people view.

YANBU. A dog that excitable should be kept away from visitors. I have a dog, she's tiny a chiuauah/ dacshund cross. She's never bitten anyone but gets very excited when ever anyone comes to the door. I always make sure she's either in the garden or in her cage when someone comes round as she will jump up and bark at them, which isn't nice. I hate it when I go to someone's house and their dogs are jumping up at me. I'm surprised that given she was trying to sell her house, she let her dog do this.

Gotta love Mumsnet.

An unprovoked dog puts its mouth and teeth around a person's FACE and it's all 'normal behaviour' chat.

Thank fuck I don't have mental dog owning friends.

If no-one in the house predicted it was capable of doing that, how can any person on MN, having never met the animal, be so sure that next time it won't rip someone's nose off? don't tell me you're all Barbara fucking Woodhouse

Thanks again for all the replies. Really useful perspectives. I think I will mention it to the agent and hopefully the dogs will be kept away for future viewings. I do feel nervous about the children but it seems the consensus here is that it isn't for me to do anything about that.

I was having a look at stats and there were 1160 children hospitalised in England with dog bites in 2014. The majority of dog bites in children and from their family pet.

Also this from a Pointer breed website behaviourist -

Statistics published by the American Veterinary Medical Association:

More than 4.5 million people in the U.S. are bitten by dogs each year.
Almost 1 in 5 people bitten by dogs require medical attention.
Children are the most common victims of dog bites and are far more likely to be severely injured.
Most dog bites affecting young children occur during everyday activities and while interacting with familiar dogs.

Dog bites typically happen in or near the home. I suspect many if not most go unreported, especially if the victim does not seek medical attention. That is certainly true of the cases that I see. I see biting dogs of all breeds. Many of those breeds have reputations as wonderful family pets. Breed alone is a poor predictor of whether a dog will bite. Individual temperament, early socialization, past experiences, training, and health can influence a dog’s readiness to bite.

Fortunately, the majority of dog bites are of the non-puncturing kind (snaps or light scrapes). But a dog that uses his teeth to control people is worrisome no matter the dog’s intent. Injury to soft tissue can occur even if the skin is not broken. I often see clients whose entire arms are covered with scratches and bruises thanks to their dogs who were “just playing”. A dog that warns with growls or air snaps might escalate to biting if his warnings are punished or unheeded.

I would not be happy. A dog bit you on the face! Who cares if it didn't draw blood? My dd bit my dh this morning, she didn't draw blood but we told her off for biting.
My dog has never done anything like this and if he did I would be seriously worried about having him around my children.

yanbu
I would report.
the dog was 'dangerously out of control', biting or not.

YANBU my French Bullfig did this to me twice, in what sounds like exactly the same place and it really hurt.
She was only a puppy and had been playing just before so was still excited. Luckily she has grown out of it and is older now and never uses her teeth. She still has the habit of trying to contain her excitement and then just lunging at things and jumping all over them. She is very soft and kind but not a particularly gentle dog, very clumsy and gets excited and tramples on things. Hope your ok, I would mention it to the estate agent otherwise it will put off other potential buyers.

*Bulldog not Bullfig haha!