To think this 'naturopath' should be prosecuted?

[HeroOfFerelden]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37572771

This guy sold parents looking for help 'medicine' that not only didn't work but actually hurt him, and could have killed him. People really shouldn't be allowed to do stuff like this, so many people think these so called alternative therapies are harmless or helpful but that's not always the case.

You're not lying. And neither is your friend.

But sh was not cured of lupus by a naturopath.

It is pfectly possible for all 3 of these statments to be true.

Totally agree with PP that 'natural' is not the same as 'good'. There's nothing natural about cutting someone open and operating on them. Saves a lot of lives though. Anaesthesia isn't natural but I'm very grateful it exists.

I am not clear if there is any regulation for naturopaths, but as the front page of their website includes the words detox, toxins and cleansing ( as well as the obvious nonsense of homeopathy) there are plenty of bullshit warnings.

This needs to be hammered home at school and afterwards. Natural can be poisonous. Herbal is a drug like conventional. And chemicals are in everything.

No one said you are lying Atenco but surely you can see that if this person cured your friend the medical profession and pharmaceutical companies would be all over it and the person who cured your friend would famous the world over.

Some illnesses go into remission for what can be quite long periods and the mind can have a very powerful influence if someone believes something strongly.

Atenco

Obligatory Stephen Fry :

“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what."

Nowhere did I call anyone a liar. I just observed that any claim that Lupus has been cured in any way is - as of today - extremely unlikely.

Unlikely enough that it's either (a) a mistake in the orignal diagnosis, or (b) a mistake in the declaration of "cured".

Lupus - like Multiple Sclerosis (which I have learned an awful lot about) is a chronic condition without a cure.

To turn the tables, maybe I should be offended by your suggestion that Lupus can be cured ? I certainly took offence when some random suggested my wifes MS was because she "wasn't Christian enough".

Its illegal to practice medicine without a licence. Why has he not been prosecuted? the laws exist, clearly the will isnt there for some reason.

I caught the tail end of this in the news & did wonder what had actually harmed the poor boy.

Vitamin D toxicity now makes a lot of sense & if this was suggested/prescribed by the naturopath, then actually I do agree that they should be held to account as over prescribing any fat soluble vitamin without bloods to back up a deficiency is foolish at best & at worst, as here, very dangerous.

& I say that as someone who has seen miraculous results in my own DD with vitamins & supplements

The parents were very stupid but the guy is the one who should be prosecuted

How can people be so gullible.

No one said you are lying Atenco but surely you can see that if this person cured your friend the medical profession and pharmaceutical companies would be all over it and the person who cured your friend would famous the world over

Well from what I can see here, the medical professional would be every bit as skeptical as you lot. So no, I don't they would be all over it, they would just dismiss the possibility out of hand.

I think herbal concoctions can be very potent, harmful or otherwise. Yes, they are not regulated. I actually think some may offer potential cures or be helpful with regard to health conditions. The trouble is there is not enough research to say conclusively. Often there is not enough research because a medicine made from a commonly available or easily grown plant may not be seen as very profitable. I think at all times caution must be operated, as with any medicine.

i was going to say Atenco that I was sorry that you were offended and that I didn't actually think that you or your were lying but that you honestly believed that her lupus was cured.

But you know what? No. I find it bloody offensive that people carry on peddling half arsed unproven stories around the internet that falsely raise the hopes of those that have severe debilitating life limiting diseases. There is no magic cure, I wish there was, but there isn't. By going round saying there's some fucking magic woman/man that by the power of woo can cure you when billions of pounds of research can't is disingenuous and heartbreakingly mean. It means that rather than learning to live and manage a condition (and enjoying healthy periods) people invest their energy on finding this magic one person who has managed a cure from some random part of the UK all on their own.

Oh and are they sharing this wonderful news with all the other woo practitioners so that they can reach and help as many as possibles? Beating the door down of the royal colleges/universities etc to prove their claims? Oh no. They keep that shit to themselves and bullshit a small group of people to fork over cash.

So no that charlatan didnt cure your friend. She was either misdiagnosed or went into remission naturally. And I am really glad of that. And no it doesn't particularly matter if your friend believes that. Until of course if she gets an illness that needs evidence based medicine and turns to her all healing naturopath who may not know when she's out of her depth.

Going back to the original story I'd be interested to know how the parents got their dc to take this concoction of supplements. Ime it can be hard enough to get liquid medicines down a preschooler or older let alone several pills of varying sizes , flavours and textures into a 4 yo with asd. Presumably there was some preparation , and perhaps duress/bribery , involved.

Where I live the naturopaths have the same approach with everything, irrespective of original issues

• they order blood tests (via the GP) and misinterpret the results to need supplements, usually vitamin B12 powders, iron and vitamin D and ongoing review. They seem to have lab values that differ from the lab ones and the GP's interpretation.
• they throw around genetic terms they don't understand, "My naturopath has started testing for a mitochondrial disorder".
• goat's milk rather than cow's milk (something to do with cow's eating grass)
• gluten free
• cow's milk protein free (but still drinking goat's milk even through with true cow's milk protein intolerance goat's milk protein isn't tolerated either).
• lots of expensive follow up

I'd have more respect for them if their approach wasn't formulaic.

(Mitochondrial disorders are hard to diagnose and often require muscle biopsies).

It baffles me why some people regard 'natural' as an indication that something is good for you. Arsenic is natural. Bacteria are natural. Venomous spiders are natural. None of these things are good for you.

Bacteria are very very good for you. Well, some. The ones that you would not survive without.

There is a lot of interest in using spider venom for treatments for conditions including cancer.

Arsenic has been used (and I believe still is) to treat cancer.

The one you are most wrong about is the bacteria. You'd die without bacteria.

Yes, stupid mistake about the bacteria. I was of course thinking of the disease-causing kind, not the ones in the gut.

I think most people would prefer to leave arsenic and spider venom to experts to modify/process and test before consuming them, though!

LurkingHusband wonderful comment and Stephen Fry quote 😊

I very recently discovered my new favourite charity that some of you may be interested in - The Good Thinking Society goodthinkingsociety.org/about/ they're anti-woo and pro science, wonderful!

KateinKorea thank you for spelling that out for me, there I was going to harvest some raw spider venom as a preventative measure.

Oh wait, rereading what I said I don't think I implied otherwise.

Oh I don't know Dropowt, given what some people are willing to believe if told convincingly enough, I'm pretty sure there are people who would be willing to have raw spider venom inject into them.

Personally, I'm going with snake oil as a remedy for what ails you.

Anyone interested in buying some? Only £300 an ounce. Yes, it may seem expensive to you but it's a bugger to harvest and as I'm the only one who knows about it's magic properties you're going to have to pay for my exclusive expertise.

And once I've cured you, you needn't worry about any more of those silly doctors poking you around, cos I sure as hell ain't telling anyone else about it.