To feel upset about this

[Butterflyheaven]

My mother has been dead for nearly twenty years, since I was a very young girl, and so (obviously) my friends don't know her, although they know she's dead and I think most know it was cancer.

Anyway, recently the friend of a friend who I know a little has lost her mum to cancer. Obviously, this is really sad and I think it's something that's upsetting at any age.

However, my other friends have been talking to me about how awful it is, how immensely sad, how they don't know how she is coping.

I feel as if my own loss is so far in the past that no one gives a toss really. It occurred to me they've never asked me about my mum or what killed her - I think they know it's cancer. They've never asked if she had chemo, if she was ill for a long time. It's like they really don't care.

AIBU to want people to acknowledge she existed?

I'm orphaned. It's never mentioned. If someone loses a parent, it's still not mentioned.

I think people just don't know how to broach it. They can react to recent events - sharing shock, offering immediate support - but past that, it's uncomfortable and they aren't sure what the etiquette is.

I'd treat it like any other conversation topic. Raise it if you want to talk about it. I don't tend to, but the same strategy might work for you?

You sound quite frank about your own experience, which is probably due to not really having the opportunity to have a fuss made of you at the time. I know some families just don't give themselves the opportunity to acknowledge their own grief.

Do you think your friends just forgot about it as you seem (to them) to have got over it?

When I was losing my mum my friend said that at least I had her for x years, she had lost her mum as a child, and that actually helped me.

When mum had gone a lot of people shared their experiences of losing a parent, and that helped too.

Are you reaching out or are you expecting people to mention it first? Because if it's the later, I think it's unrealistic.

I also suspect the experiences of losing a parent at different stages of life are so different that people wouldn't relate them. When mum had gone a friend was talking about losing their mum as a teenager, and I couldn't help thinking that was so much worse than what I had suffered and had such a different impact on their life that I couldn't really relate the experiences and it just made me feel bad.

I'm so sorry for your loss, and for the fact that you're finding it particularly hard at the moment. You've said that you thought you got rubbish support at the time, but it's not too late: it could still be really helpful for you to speak to a bereavement counsellor.

As I said, I'm very sympathetic, but the thing is, you're not going through quite 'the same' thing, as you said:

In some ways as well I feel some jealous and mean feelings like 'well at least she had her mum for X number of years more than me!' which is horrible and I don't like feeling them. But it's not just losing a mother. I lost my entire family really. Nothing was ever, ever the same afterwards and I went on losing her when I got GCSEs and A levels, got my degree, got pregnant ... I've lost her a thousand times since I lost her.

Losing a parent as a child is different to losing them as a young adult is different to losing them as an older adult: I can see why your friends aren't directly connecting your situations. I don't think it means they're insensitive or that they imagine that losing your mother as a child is less significant.

I think that if you said to one of your friends (obviously not the one who has recently lost her mother) that you were finding that this was bringing up a lot of feelings around your own loss you would almost certainly find that they were sympathetic, and that they did care.

People (ime) don't like to be reminded that they will one day be orphaned. I have no parents, grand parents and it feels like I am next in line. Others older than me even have great grand parents.

It's unfair and also people don't acknowledge it as it might be them soon. I lost a parent as a child and other was largely emotionally absent so have always felt like an orphan. My experience is that people either feel pity as they can't imagine it happening to them and others don't even acknowledge my situation. I have learnt to live with it but I know how it hurts.

AIBU to want people to acknowledge she existed?

but you yourself are the evidence she existed.

I think YABU, your loss was a long time ago. There is no reason for anyone to think you are still grieving, specially if you have never mentioned it to them. if you are still grieving, maybe this is something you should chat to your GP about?? because it is a long time ago.

I lost my mother as a teenager. I have since then grown up, and as she never was any part of my adult life, there is no gap. I and my siblings are the proof she existed, that is enough.

I don't think you are wrong to feel sad, but I do think you are wrong to think other people would expect you to feel sad now, after all this time. Everyone, almost without exception, is living with the memory of bereavements, we cannot go round consoling each other about every loss, for ever.

i lost my dad to cancer 10 years ago and about 4 years ago a good friend of mine lost her dad to cancer as well, never did i get upset over mutual friends saying how awful it was about her dad and not mentioning mine....it did bring a lot of feelings back as it was a similar time of year but it wasnt about me, it was about my friend and her grief and loss
so i think you are a little bit unreasonable about it

I've lost her a thousand times since I lost her.

OP, I'm crying as I write this, as I've never seen anybody sum up so well what it feels like to lose your mum. I feel like this to, YANBU, I can cry at a moment's notice when a memory comes or when I just miss her so much it hurts. You never get over it, you learn to live with it, in my case, often not very well.

for you, and to all of us who have lost a mum, (and a dad, I've lost him too)

Thank you. I don't think I am still grieving. I'm not sure I ever did, as I don't remember.

I'm not asking for a massive fuss.

But something like "I feel terrible for sue. It must be horrendous for her - well, you must know how it is. Poor sue."

That's all. I'm honestly not looking for massive flower tributes or anything.

Recently I had to call someone and explain who I was and I said 'I am (mums) daughter' and it felt so nice, as it's been a long time since I've been anybody's daughter.

Butterfly - I remember reading once when I was a new mother an article which said the very worst thing you could do as a parent is die young. I have such sympathy for those who lose parents when they are children, having known several families where this happened. I take great care when I see those children (young adults now) to talk about their parent who I knew really well, and they barely remember. They sort of 'glow' when they hear the silly funny stories. Am so sorry for you that your loss was at a different time and people hushed things up. I think it would be good if you could actually say to one or two trusted friends the truth of how you are feeling - that seeing a friend lose her mother has suddenly brought your loss into clarity and you at struggling with all those losses you had and will continue to have. Its not making your friend's loss about you: its being open with your friends so something doesn't fester away inside you.

"If you'd lost your leg and someone else lost theirs, wouldn't you kind of expect it to be mentioned in a 'oh, it's so awful for Sarah, did you know she's lost her leg? Isn't it awful? I don't know how she's coping. I'd be so upset if I lost my leg.""

I don't think that's the same at all. Managing without a leg presents real physical and logistical difficulties which don't change.

I think you are probably feeling like this largely because of what happened or didn't happen at and immediately after the time your own mum died. I can understand that completely, and I've been through similar, and have done 'bits' of proper grieving at various times in my life partly because of probably not being able to do it at the time.

Losing your mother very young is not the same as when you are an adult. It's not easier, but it's not the same. I hardly remember mine at all, so for me it's mostly sadness at what she and I both missed out on, and the unfairness of if all, rather than actually missing her presence as a person.

for you.

I think sometimes people get so wrapped up in the moment that they don't consider others.

It really doesn't matter is your DM passed 100 years ago, does it? It's still deeply painful and I'm sure she will always be in your heart. X

So sorry for your loss Butterfly. My DM died six years ago and the feelings ebb and flow. I actually think it is harder this year than last.

1990s bereavement support wasn't up too much

I think what you have said here is very important. Perhaps it's time to look after yourself extra specially and look for some counselling support. Your feelings are perfectly natural and if you don't want to talk with friends about your DM then perhaps it might be easier with someone you don't know so well. You sound lovely and caring and sad. Look after yourself.

YANBU. My DM died about 15 years ago (in my late teens) and hardly anybody ever mentions her. My DFs way of coping was to meet another woman, remove family photos and never mention my DM again.
A couple of my old friends who remember Mum well are the only people who reference her occasionally, which I really appreciate. But I wouldn't expect newer friends (who didn't know my Mum) to particularly reference it. The only ones who do have also lost their mums, so it's more relevant for them.
I understand how you feel

Thank you to those who have understood and have said kind things.

I wish some hadn't seen fit to dismiss my loss, as I don't remember her anyway so who cares, is what some of you seem to be implying.

Can you really not see that's the point?

As a pp has said - I don't think I would ask a friend questions of how their parent died unless they brought it up and we're speaking openly and clearly about it...probably because I would expect it to be difficult to talk about. That said, I can understand why you're upset. However...I think it's unfair to assume that they know for certain your mum died of cancer.

I wish some hadn't seen fit to dismiss my loss, as I don't remember her anyway so who cares, is what some of you seem to be implying.

I think that's a little unfair. The only comment with anything like that idea is flowery, who is very clearly talking about her own experience. I think you're - entirely understandably - so upset about this that you're reading things that aren't there both here and, I think, in comments that friends make.

The thing is, while you say you're not asking for much (and in some ways that's true) you are being incredibly specific about what you want people to say. There's pretty much an exact script that you want them to follow. This never really works: you can't expect people to read your mind and then be cross/hurt when they don't.

No, I'm really not Margaret, I'm asking people, when discussing a friend who lost her mother to cancer, to maybe remember I also lost a mother to cancer, but clearly this is unbelievably fucking unreasonable.

Sorry, I am upset and I am hurt, by the fact that I have lost both parents and no one cares.

I have a few friends whose mum/dad died long before I knew them, and I never bring up the subject unless they do. For example, I'm pretty sure that one of the friends I met via my kids' school lost her dad to suicide but I'm disinclined to raise it, and when we chat about the '80s or our school days (for example) I don't mention him. id hate to cause distress.

I really don't remember either of my parents, either. I'm 26 and have been orphaned for most of my life. I can understand, to an extent, how you feel (much of it is personal, of course).

It's stopped hurting for me, mostly, but i think a big part of that was accepting that most people mean no harm. They simply don't know how to react. They don't want to remind you of a bad thing, they don't know how to reference it. It's the same at mothers or Father's Day, or Christmas - people really struggle to ask me where I'll be, because they don't want to reference it. It would probably make the conversations much less awkward if they did! But instead they leave it to me to mention, if I want, or to leave.

I don't believe they mean any harm. And I'm very sorry for your loss

I don't think they mean harm at all but in a bizarre way it's that which upsets me a little bit - as if what I have lost is so unimportant not even to be mentioned :)

The passage of time is assumed to relieve the pain of grief but in my experience, the passage of time simply reduces/fatigues people's compassion and empathy leaving you no platform or space to acceptably talk about your sorrow.

It's not unimportant but I you and I had the loss and shock when we were younger and I think that adults are appalled when a child looses a parent and treat you kindly but to other kids it makes you different, so your peers little understanding of what has happened. Adults have a better understanding of a contemporary's loss. I think what WorkingItOut suggests is a good idea, your feelings are understandable and reasonable and you if you can't talk to a friend maybe find a good counsellor to listen to you. Look after yourself.

"I wish some hadn't seen fit to dismiss my loss, as I don't remember her anyway so who cares, is what some of you seem to be implying."

I really hope you are not referring to me there.