Please help me to understand...

[btfly2]

I can't get it really, too confusing and not nice but particularly confusing.
I'm back to the school gates/playground to collect my child after months due to my husband was doing it for me. I used to enjoy to see and chat with some people while waiting there. I know, I'm v councious that I'm a foreigner but I made my effort and integrated and blended pretty well or at least I thought. Anyway, I feel know is like back to square one! Not a single person said hi or showed a little interest... I was literally a ghost.
Why? Where the good manners and kindness gone?? they can't pretend they don't know me. I just sat in the car in tears not wanting to come back ever . Sorry... I needed to share to make it lighter. Thanks for reading xxxx

Actually you did. You said it was normal to chat (therefore abnormal not to) and that it was understandable people didn't if they weren't outgoing or scared, implying that there would have to be somehting wrong with you to be excused from the expectation.
Perfectly normal, outgoing, not remotely frightened people don't feel the need to chat to people they don't know merely because they happen to regularly have to go to the same place.

Maybe it is because you're a foreigner?

Not sure I agree with the pp who pile in to insinuate you're automatically ridiculous for thinking it could be a factor

Newsflash -some people are racist .

Not saying it's got any bearing on this situation, but then how would I know? Through the power of Internet sight?

Sometimes I just wish people would acknowledge the op's perspective. Lots of people so quick to assume that racism/sexism/ageism etc can't possibly be involved because we all live in such a social utopia.

I hardly ever chatted to anyone at the school gates. No more do I chat to people I see very week at the supermarket, the high street, the tube station or the bus stop.

I dashed in, picked up, chatted to my friends or people I knew or parents of friends of my DC but no more than two or three.

As pp said - it isn't s social club. But OF COURSE they are all racist ......

First of all, you can't imagine how much the responses mean, thank you all! My self steem is a bit low these days and I thought I could hardly hit five answers in total! I read all of them very carefully, can I meet you tomorrow at my school gates please :) I don't post much but I'm a mumsnet follower for quite some time.
To clarify my comment about being a foregneir, strong accents sometimes scare people and I'm always aware and overthink everything I say/will say in order not to make many mistakes and to get my best pronunciation , that's it. NO, I don't think for a minute about racism but yes I know when I speak my accent might be not a great thing...also cannot be about you being racist because the indifference at the playground happens with some of the locals as well. Maybe is more a women or mums thing or both together ? I still don't get it, I insist being friendly and good manners are always favorites xx

I would carry on being friendly and if you can, not worrying too much about your accent, how you say things. Just carry on being yourself. You sound lovely and if you were at the school gates I'd chat to you. Though next time I'm likely to be at any school gates is if I take/collect DGD but that'll be a while off as she's just 1.

If you've noticed that what you are experiencing is also happening to others than hopefully that will help you know its not personal.

I have a few 'proper' friends from the school mums now and socialise with them but you wouldn't be able to tell this from the school run.

On a good day I might nod and smile to people and sometimes chat to whoever I happen to be standing near but on other days I probably have my resting bitch face on as I'm thinking about what to have for tea/ have I remembered everything etc.

I try to smile at all the reception mums in the first few weeks just so they don't think I'm unfriendly but generally I'm there to sort my kids out and don't have the time or energy for anything else.

Like you say OP it's indifference which could just be down to being busy or just not feeling the need to make new friends in a 5 minute drop off/pick up situation. Not necessarily unfriendly just indifferent.

Carry on nodding, smiling and saying hello. At worst you will come across as friendly and pleasant and you will hopefully start to pick up who are friendly faces who are open to a bit of small talk whilst waiting.

I found that I only really got to know other mums properly when helping out at school events or at parties that sort of thing. I went on a night out organised by one of the mums and from there more nights out/ lunches /spa days followed but these things do tend to develop over time - I certainly wasn't looking to make friends particularly.

Most parents tend to gravitate towards other parents from their kids' class as you cross paths more and have more reason to interact with each other if your kids are friends so this might be a good starting point if that's what you are looking for.

Don't take it personally though. Either people will warm to you over time or they won't and if they don't they are not worth worrying about

btfly2 My first wife was English never seemed to make friends with anyone other than foreigners! There were a lot of super mums and queen bees at that that one!, the other wife who was foreign had much the same problem. It seems sometimes school isnt that friendly a place!.

I managed to blank one of my friends at pick up today because I wasn't expecting her to be there. A lot of people are on auto pilot and don't actually engage their brain. So if you haven't been there for a while they aren't looking for you.

btfly I am so sorry you had this negative experience. And sorry you have had some well crap responses here! (as well as some good ones).

It may be that some are racist or don't like people with difference accents. You do get such people in all walks of life and in all places in the country. So you are not wrong to consider this may be the case. But generally I would say it is not.

Do you want people to just say hi or are you hoping to make friends?

In my experience by the time the children are at school it is mostly the kids who make friends, and we make friends with the friends' parents! Before that it was the other way round, I made friends with people with kids and their kids were my kids' friends!

As to why those mums were not friendly. It may well be that a lot of the mums are busy, wrapped up in their own things and not aware of others who could use a bit of human kindness.

I found with my daughter is was quite easy to make friends as we were all new mums together. All had similar aged babies and it progressed from toddler groups to pre-school and to school gates.

Our son is adopted and came to us at three, nearly four. So the whole mum and baby thing was not there and the todder group was not so easy. But I still took him at three and had the good luck to make friends with one of those mums who does everything, is into everything and gets people together. Without even realizing it (I am sure she would say she had not! but... ) she took me under her wing.

She introduced me to new people and invited me over for coffee. I invited her back and now we are good friends. All from meeting at a toddler group and ending up with our sons in the same class. The friendship has grown because we have made time to really listen to each other, and that cannot happen at the school gate. That takes more time.

In our school we are near a park and often, on a Friday, a lot of kids and mums gravitate there, or the pub garden for lunch at the end of term etc.

This all takes time so I would just say be warm and smiley, if you catch someone's eye venture a comment, the weather is a very good topic, it is usually doing something noteworthy. If they ignore you or blank you, just brush it off. If they reply, just keep smiling and if the conversations continues, so be it.

See if you child has any particular friends and would like to go to the park with them, and their mum, or would like to invite them back to play, with the mum coming back for coffee.

It is part of a much wider thing really, at the 'higher' level you may decide to start volunteering at the school, if you have time, or helping to fundraise, all these things help you to get to know other mums, and dads, and sometimes meet their friends and family. Some won't want this, it sounds exhausting to them. As an extrovert, I need it!

But start small. Start with a few well chosen words. Compliments sometimes work, a nice coat or a new hair style or their child bringing out a really good painting etc. But always make sure it is a genuine compliment about something you like or it will sound false.

Good luck.

YANBU that sounds quite hurtful. i am sure it has nothing to do with where you come from. i know there are reports in the news of xenophobia and it does happen but i don' t think the majority of Brits are like that?

As to why those mums were not friendly. It may well be that a lot of the mums are busy, wrapped up in their own things and not aware of others who could use a bit of human kindness

Or it could just be that they don't owe every random in the yard to be friends with them!

God these attitudes are bizarre! Stop encouraging people to expect the school yard to be an instant source of friends, you're not 5.

After many years of standing playgrounds (thankfully now over), I've come to the conclusion that most people
a) don't talk to anyone unless specifically addressed
b) talk to one or a few close friends (often people they know outside of school)
c) are generally friendly and bubbly and talk to everyone

c) seems to be the smallest category of people. Also, whether or not it's "normal" to chat must depend on your school. At DD's school, most parents drop and run on their way to work, and arrive at the last minute (or arrange for their DC to walk to a point of school to meet them) at the end of school. The number of parents that actually have time to stand around and chat sufficiently to make actual friends as opposed to small talk, is really pretty small.

I do wonder about some people social skills at times.
I don't expect people to be my friends, (I'm a sort of warm confident introvert)but I think it's odd to not react to people. Seems like bad manners to me. I've never been offended, but have wondered why people are not more warm to each other. But then I realised it's mostly a confidence thing, so I carry on being being friendly , in a low key quiet way, (and more involved with the school), and feel very comfy on the school run now. Hope you will too.

Nope, not a confidence thing. Just a normal, everyday, reality; that people you don't know don't rush over to chat to you the minute you appear.

If you applied the expectations you have in the school yard to any other area of life, people would think you quite insane.

We're a friendly bunch at DD's school and can really count in each other to help out and do favours, which is lovely.

Was it like that before your DH took over? Or has it never been very chatty.

I only have experience of one school and one year group but that does sound lonely. Often my only adult interaction is at school. Not anyone else's problem or fault, of course.

Don't sweat it OP. I used to stand in the corner of the playground hoping to be left alone. I used to take something to read so that I didn't have to engage with anyone - just grab DD3 and run type thing.

I'm sure it's nothing personal.

I am racially not Caucasian, but am otherwise as culturally English as they come. I made so much effort to be friendly at my DDs' school, but eventually gave up - after 7 years! Quite simply, the non-English parents were never allowed in to the coffee mornings/dinners etc. and the children weren't invited to the non-whole class parties.

I fully believe racism was a factor, conscious or unconscious. Our faces just did not fit. It all fell into place when I looked round the audience for a school show one day. The black lady was sitting next to the Greek mum. The German mother next to the Russian. The Asian next to the French mother. I found it pretty chilling actually.

And this in apparently multi cultural London. At work we are mixed, and everyone gets on well with each other. But not in the playground of this North London private school.

Racism still exists, although I bet these mothers would be horrified at any suggestion of it. Even I didn't think about this until after 6/7 years. But I quite frankly eventually had enough of volunteering at stalls and have the other mothers blank me, as they laughed and joked, occasionally pausing to request that I pass the strawberries or something. No thanks.

So I sympathise OP, it's not nice.

As a foreigner myself, I feel for you.
And having done the school run for years and having felt just as uneasy as you, I also get where you are coming from.

My two pences worth there.

• Some people you will never gel with. A few months wo seeing you and you will have been forgotten. That's life.

• if you are living somewhere where rules of behaviour/class etc.. Is essential, you will stick ut from the rest. Not because of who you are but because you will not follow all the non said rules that governs their behaviour. In our school playground, it was clear that people were meeting according to class (eg middle middle class not mixing with the slightly upper middle etc... Or whatever other subsection of the society there is). I believe it is much easier if you are living in a city where people are more used to a higher turnover of people, different ways of doing things etc... Rather than a small town that is quite insular.

• In the middle of all that, you might be able to find some people who are more open and you can make 'friends' with. I did. But I haven't found that many of them.

But the bottom line is that it has nothing to do with you.

Last comment. I do hope that the behaviour you have noticed has nothing to do with the current political rethorics. But again, I have seen people changing their behaviour too so :(:(

I think it's a bit rude to stand right beside someone who you know has something in common with you - child at same school - and not even say hello. How busy do you have to be to not even manage a 'hello' or 'Good Morning'?

Also it's sensible, as you never know when you'll be grateful to share a run to a group thing when the children get older or benefit from this opportunity to network. This is easier to arrange if everyone is in the habit of being polite to each other.

Don't worry about it though OP. It sounds like you have different priorities from the other mums at your school gate. Give it a bit of time and try not to overthink these things.

I

user out of interest, would the person who are saying hello to and talking to for years still is 'someone you don't know'?
After spending so much time waiting on the playground and talking, you wouldn't feel that somehow you should be polite and answer that person let alone coming to have a chat with you?

In my experience, in the context of the school playground, when people don't come over to talk to you like this, they are telling you they don't want to have anything to do with you, in the usual passive aggressive way people seem to like (I'm not going to make a scene and tell you but I will show it by not engaging/talking etc...)

This is my second year of school running (work part time so don't do every pick up). At the start last year it felt like everyone knew each other - mums with older siblings deep in conversation with no interest in newbies. Over time the newbies started chatting. I'm shy but forced myself to say hi to as many as possible and eventually it becomes habit, plus I often see the same parents walking in to school with kids in DC's class and get talking that way.

I found it got better after going to class birthday parties at weekends where you have 2 hours with nothing to do but chat to other parents! Also I've helped out at fund raising events.

I think I'm lucky that the school is generally a friendly place but there are some parents clearly not interested at all in even saying hello. Plus childminders are not there to make friends. I still have some days when I feel awkward and stand on my own but other days I could speak to several people.

Just keep being friendly and hopefully over time people will get used to you being back on the scene and respond better!

user out of interest, would the person who are saying hello to and talking to for years still is 'someone you don't know'?

Obviously not, if I'd be talking to them for years. But that isn't what we are talking about.

n my experience, in the context of the school playground, when people don't come over to talk to you like this, they are telling you they don't want to have anything to do with you, in the usual passive aggressive way people seem to like

That is just beyond weird. And paranoid, and needy. People don't come over to you, and they are passive aggressive and making a point? Maybe with you they are, if you think such strange things about people they probably think similar about you! In the real world, however, its just normal that people who aren't actually your friends don't come over to talk to you for no reason.

OP " I used to enjoy to see and chat with some people while waiting there.
...they can't pretend they don't know me"

OP i noticed this in your post
are you saying that people who used to be friendly are now literally avoiding you? That is a bit different than just people not wanting to chat.

I'm not a parent so my only experience of school run is with god children and friend's children - someone usually comes along out of sheer curiosity in that scenario believe me! . But I can totally imagine that for many people it will just be a rush job, I know I was on my phone looking at emails etc and for a lot of people it won't be any different - it's just another task to be done.

it sounds like you might benefit from joining a group btw. If it's any consolation my mum came here as a foreigner years ago and she made friends quite quickly - and there were still signs up saying "no dogs, no blacks, no Irish" etc.