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AIBU?

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Original poster

To refuse the landlord to do viewings?

109 replies

charlieandthechocolatecake · 04/10/2016 01:25

I am moving home soon. The majority of my belongings has been moved into storage until I take up my tenancy next month. I surrendered my tenancy during a 6 month AST. It was only after this that I found out I never had to sign a new 6 month tenancy. Now i have to pay my private LL 'fees' not listed in my contract. Anyway, I moved the majority of my belongings about a week ago. Landlord asked if she could do a viewing the same evening I moved. I allowed her but let her know I wouldn't be able to clean/repair any damage yet. Landlord emailed me the same night saying I needed to redecorated the flat. I came home to find the rest of my things moved to a corner. I didn't allow this. I still live there! In my opinion it doesn't need redecorating, I just need to clean and fix damage (screw holes etc). I didn't give her permission to do an inspection! I am spending the time between moving to my new house caring for my terminally ill aunt who will pass very VERY soon. Landlord has emailed me several times telling me she wants access to the flat for this that and the other. I have a month left on my tenancy and I would prefer it if she didn't access it freely until the last 2 weeks when the rest of my belongings have been removed and I can clean and repair any damage. Is this acceptable? I was open to her doing viewings without me present until she sent me an inflammatory email after the first day I moved my things. I'm not comfortable with anybody going back until I am ready. I feel like my landlord may think I'm being unreasonable but I've been a good tenant and now she feels she can come and go as she pleases. Please help!

OP posts:
wowfudge · 04/10/2016 22:42

The right to quiet enjoyment is a common law right rather than one enshrined in statute. It still stands.

Manumission · 04/10/2016 22:45

Pfft, I'm having watertight contracts drawn up, well deeds really, obliging everyone in the parish to tithe their chocolate to me. So I don't want to hear another word about piffling statute or common law, thanks.

Enkopkaffetak · 04/10/2016 23:09

Well anyone who gave me the runaround like that would be out on their ear at the first available opportunity, especially if the inspection reports had been less than glowing. I would assume a reluctance to let me in meant they were hiding something. Unfortunately I've learnt the hard way that there is no substitute for seeing things for myself from time to time, and if a tenant won't let me then the tenant gets a cheery wave bye bye as soon as it's possible for me to do so.

Shipper I work shift works and not office hours. I am not comfortable allowing what to me is a stranger unto my home without me there. That is who the landlord is a stranger. So for me if all I get is 24hours notice chances are high you would be told no can do. Nothing to do with giving the run around however my insurance would have a field day if I was burgled after a inspection I had not been present for.

Last agency was snooty and difficult a out everything so no I was not bending over backwards to help them . One example is them wanting in the next day for inspection when I called to rearrange she was not happy, I don't care to be honest it is not unreasonable to want to be present when strangers are in your home. They also do not ever get left alone during an inspection much to old agents annoyance. Current agents are a joy. Answers emails and passes messages on to ll. When wanting to book inspection phoned and left a message saying to just phone back to find a mutually agreeable time. We did and I expect as always to have a good report.

Just don't assume foul play is in place because your 24 hours are not agreed. Would you like a stranger walking through your home for a Jon emergency?

Enkopkaffetak · 04/10/2016 23:11

NON emergency*

Shiningexample · 05/10/2016 00:09

I am not comfortable allowing what to me is a stranger unto my home without me there
and who could blame you, but as we can see, to certain types of landlord the place that you are renting is primarily her pension fund, a conduit whose function is to channel the greater part of your wages into her bank account.

the fact that it is your home, and for most of us a safe secure private home is a fundamental need without which we cant really function, well that's neither here nor there.

Mummyoflittledragon · 05/10/2016 04:42

IShould
Carpet cleaning a bit of a grey area I'm afraid. You've been there a very long time. Were they cleaned before you moved in? If they weren't the view could be taken the LL has to clean them from time to time to keep them clean. I'd have a chat with the agent/LL before you leave. If they're in a really bad way, they may get changed anyway and therefore no need to clean them.

Beebeeeight · 05/10/2016 05:56

Moving your stuff could legally constitute harassment in the landlord/ tenant context which could mean you could sue her for damages.

Unfortunately it's a rarely used piece of law.

Agerbilatemycardigan · 05/10/2016 06:03

If you are still paying rent, they have to give ay least 24 hours notice. Technically you are still the tenant, and you need to point this out in no uncertain terms to your LL.

I had this issue when I first started renting, and my LL's wife would just turn up and expect to be let in - even the day after I'd given birth to DD3 Confused

Apparently she was just 'looking after her husband's investment' Hmm

Sparklemummyx0x0x · 05/10/2016 06:58

I must be lucky...my landlord has been great. She texts me...I text back. If I'm on nights and they need to nip in for something, I'll let her know....they come a different day or time. If I'm out, she'll ask if it's ok for them to nip in. Usually fine. We have a good chat if I'm in.
With regards to boiler check, etc, We both get the letter.... but I'll arrange it and let her know I've done it! Didn't know it was supposed to be any different.
When we went away for 2 weeks, I text her...she said she'd check on the house. They are lovely.
Shame they've decided to sell up now so I'm moving out. It's given me a kick up the arse to get myself a mortgage and buy.

Original poster
charlieandthechocolatecake · 05/10/2016 09:41

I'm so sorry I haven't been back. Thank you for all of your advice. My plan was to ask the landlord to allow herself access to the flat in the last 2 weeks if my tenancy. Before I could let her know this, she has emailed me saying that if I don't allow her and her estate agent access sooner then she will apply through her rent guarantee insurance to make me liable for the rent until the end if my 6 month ast even though we have agreed to end it earlier. The fees I have pair are the cost of her rent guarantee insurance for the rest of the tenancy (£52) and the cost of readvertising (£120). I have already paid this and now she says she will make me pay for the rest of the 3 months via her insurance. She has also said she will make me liable for all expenses re redecorating. I'm so confused. I've already said I'm going to redecorated before I go. Somebody please advise me? Thank you

OP posts:
Ineedacupofteadesperately · 05/10/2016 09:42

This thread is making me so glad we mortgaged ourselves in piles of debt to buy - brings back the nightmare of renting from scuzzy landlords who don't see tenants as equal human beings.

Some of our landlords were great but it's a roulette wheel - you never really know until you've been there a while - and it's a gamble I wasn't willing to take with the DC living there, particularly after a few bad experiences with ll who just let themselves in (yes, that's against the law but then you've got to take them to court and prove it, and then good luck getting a good reference for your next rental if you do involve the courts / police). We were so lucky we could get out of the rent trap, just.

Completely agree with not wanting a stranger in your house amongst all your possessions when you're not there - always think it's a bit strange that schools, clubs etc have to have DBS / criminal records checks for all their staff and volunteers but LL - who could be renting a house to very young children or vulnerable adults - don't need this. Yet they have keys and access to the house and really could come in whenever they wanted to.

If the LL moved your things, OP, then that is a breach of quiet enjoyment - they are YOUR things the LL has no right to move them around.

Original poster
charlieandthechocolatecake · 05/10/2016 09:51

Sorry for the typos. My hands are shaking. I can't afford to pay for another 3 months as well as pay for the flat I'm moving into. My LL has been good up until now. But she's treating me as though it is an eviction. After her recent messages I'd rather her not come in again until I'm ready to hand over the keys but if I do that she's going to make me pay isn't she? What was the point in paying the fees if she can just go back on the arrangement?

OP posts:
Ineedacupofteadesperately · 05/10/2016 09:58

OP, do you have it in writing that she agreed to let you out of the contract early? The fact you have paid some costs (re-advertising fee) which presumably you can prove should mean that there is some kind of record of this agreement? I'd suggest you call Shelter or CAB for advice. She is using bullying tactics. She can't just make you pay the full redecorating costs - you're allowed normal wear and tear - if your deposit is in a protected scheme (which it should be by law and if it isn't she's broken the law) she can't just access it without your consent. So sorry you're going through this - some people are just bullies and your LL is clearly one of these.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 05/10/2016 10:08

My most recent experience of a bullying LL / agent was that once I confronted them with the law then they backed down pretty quickly. I mentioned the right, under the law, to quiet enjoyment - which you could argue she breached by a) bullying you and threatening to unilaterally changing the agreement you'd made on a move out date and b) moving your things without your consent c) threatening you with the full redecoration costs and you also mention an 'inflammatory email' - possibly evidence of threatening behaviour? They hope to scare you into compliance. I really hope you have written evidence of the agreement to end the tenancy early - then they really don't have a leg to stand on. Here's a link to the Shelter helpline england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/how_we_can_help/housing_advice_helpline

Original poster
charlieandthechocolatecake · 05/10/2016 10:13

I'm not sure actually, it's all been done via email. I sent her a notice to surrender and she acknowledged it and we agreed a date and fees.

OP posts:
Pisssssedofff · 05/10/2016 10:16

We had an Apple Mac stolen by a letting agent, couldn't give a shit about the computer but 10 years of kids photos gone and of course because I'd given them a key by insurance was invalid. Do not allow inspections alone at all

Mummyoflittledragon · 05/10/2016 10:26

Find the emails. A written agreement should be enough. Definitely get the cab/shelter advice.

How long have you lived there? Redecoration is usually wear and tear unless you've really dirtied the walls.

Original poster
charlieandthechocolatecake · 05/10/2016 10:31

I've been there just over a year. Walls are fine, nothing a magic eraser can't handle. She wants it back ready to give to her next tenant though. I've been trying to call shelter but haven't been able to get through just yet.

OP posts:
Ineedacupofteadesperately · 05/10/2016 10:32

If it's all been done by email then you have a written record of the agreed date of the termination of the contract - as far as I understand it this now overrides the original contract. Having agreed that, and fees for leaving the contract early, she can't just now decide she wants you to pay for an extra 3 months. Make sure those emails are safe!

Good luck - hope you get some support from Shelter - is there anyone else in RL you can lean on to help you at this difficult time and perhaps be present during viewings? Regarding viewings, you don't have any obligation to clean / tidy / redecorate before these (you do have to clean etc before the hand over of keys at the end of the tenancy). It might be worth letting a reasonable number of them go ahead to show goodwill - perhaps ONLY with you present (not the LL, who you obviously find threatening). I agree you really need to be there during the viewings (otherwise, in theory, damage could be done during viewings that they then claim you've done).

Original poster
charlieandthechocolatecake · 05/10/2016 10:33

MOLD I just read the emails and her reply to my notice to surrender was 'thanks for that' following a discussion regarding the last day of my tenancy.

OP posts:
Shiningexample · 05/10/2016 10:39

Charlie, she is bullshitting and trying to intimidate you, also she seems to be making you pay for things that arent your responsibility.

I wonder why she's iin such a panic? I suspect she is financially not in good shape, may have realised that upcoming changes to taxation affecting landlords are going to leave her in a bad way.
I know there are good landlords!!
But some of them have horrible attitudes to tenants, lording it and issuing threats like feudal landowners
as for letting agents many appear to be racketeers

Mummyoflittledragon · 05/10/2016 10:40

Have you spoken to the letting agent? They will have a record of the agreement on file. They should be aware of the harassment. They should also be there to protect your interests. Perhaps it would be easier to negotiate through them. Are they aware of what she is expecting? Are they aware she moved your stuff?

Regarding the decorating: I wouldn't do it myself. Again speak to the letting agent. Get them to come and have a look with you present to check against the inventory if they are willing (it depends on what service the landlady has with them). They are probably ultimately the ones, who will negotiate this with the deposit holders (TDS). They will also probably say you don't have to do any decorating anyway. And if the painting isn't up to scratch or you spill paint on the skirting/walls, it will end up costing you more money to put right.

Shiningexample · 05/10/2016 10:45

She must be operating on very thin profit margins to be in such a panic that she feels the need to be so aggressive with you
Sounds like an amateur who failed to do her due diligence

PoldarksBreeches · 05/10/2016 10:53

Please contact shelter for advice. In your shoes I would respond stating

1- she cannot renege on the agreement which she gave in writing regarding early termination of the tenancy
2- you do not agree to her entering the property until x date
3- you will leave on y date as previously agreed with her
Then don't engage in any more nonsense. She is threatening you and she has no right to do so.
Is your deposit in a protected scheme?

Manumission · 05/10/2016 10:55

This thread is making me so glad we mortgaged ourselves in piles of debt to buy - brings back the nightmare of renting from scuzzy landlords who don't see tenants as equal human beings.

Doesn't it just?

OP try Shelter advice line. It sounds like she's trying it on.