To think wales is a huge problem that no one ever talks about?

[Cocklodger]

Right now Theresa May is cracking down on no win no fee solicitors
Mainly south Wales, in particular the valleys.
Back years ago when the mines were shut down rightfully there was nothing left to replace it. Nothing at all, it killed thousands of jobs, which was to be expected, but in exchange there was no new businesses, no back ups, nothing. And it's only gotten worse since, poverty is high, benefit claimants are quite common
Public transport is awful to say the least and if you can't commute to Cardiff by some means, you're screwed, most can't afford cars and if you're in a public transport black spot then you're severely limited to warehouse operative positions which have over 100 applicants in one to three days. Meanwhile house prices in Cardiff are rising, I think in 40 years we will have a new London.
In the valleys most looks grey, worn out and pretty dead to be honest. Where I live there are a few car dealerships and a train station, which is more like a bus stop with tracks next to it than an actual station and the nearest station with people actually manning the booths is pontypridd (45mins away by train) I spent years working as a volunteer for an agency that helps people with problems (poverty related) such as MH issues, finding work, food bank referrals and the like. I saw it every single day, people wanting to work but seldom getting anywhere.
There are articles and documentaries about it, but I never see them talked bout on here or elsewhere really, aibu to think that Wales is a big problem that no one really talks about?

This post has made me learn a lot.

What I can only add as an outsider and someone who has only ever been to Aberystwyth and holyhead. I never used the public transport so I can't comment on what it was like.

What bothered me from this post is those that think relying on cars to get everywhere is a good transport system that supports its poor. Waiting hours for train rides. (London to Brighton trains being late and people complain about it, and you think the Welsh have no problems with transport links?) the London Underground being graded on wether they are to mins late or more and that's a problem. Please compare that to Walsh and see if is fair. If they have problems during the day with transport, imagine what night travel is like. That in itself cuts out a whole group of workforce that could be doing night shifts.

I don't think asking people to move is a good idea. This will lead to brain draining of the areas. We say the same thing about migrants coming from abroad to the uk. Why do you think it would be different to local areas. You need people with aspirations to stay in an area to inspire other young people in order to do better. Wales is coming across on this post like those poor third world countries where the poor live in villages with there children moving to near by cities to find work. The only difference is the state offers help so they don't have to send money home to their parents and younger siblings.

Right at the beginning of this thread someone said they don't have a problem. Most of the people work in retail and call centres and similar jobs. Have seen what London offers. That is nothing to be proud off. It's great, it offers sustainable living but it's not anywhere near to people's potential on what they can achieve. Why sell your self short when the government should be able to do something about it if they wanted to. (To the poster. Am sorry if I got your statement wrong )

I do believe that sometimes you have to get out to see what your don't have. The lovely scenery won't better your children. (I am sorry to say that the scenery is being used as the opium of the masses. Blinding people from seeing what they don't have and can achieve?)

There are still massive, massive problems in many post-industrial wastelands areas around the country. Whether that be Wales, North of England, Scotland.

There are bits of Glasgow with life expectancy of 57. Lower than many developing countries. Save the Children run programmes there ( or at least they did a few years ago).

I also read that some charities from South Korea (I think) run programmes in some areas of the UK- possibly including Tower Hamlets, so poverty isn't just in post-industrial areas. Although obviously access to an escape route is possibly less likely in an isolated area than in a metropolis.

I'm familiar with some of the areas you talk about though I'm not Welsh.
Love the area and the people in it.

I live in a very depressed area too although I suspect we might have a few more opportunities than the Welsh valleys.

Two of my friends have big lads living with them ( 26 and 22 ) . Despite trying hard and doing lots of government schemes hasn't had any kind of job yet and the 26 year old manages a few weeks f labouring a year.
These are good lads from homes. It's a big problem.

Is it getting addressed. I don't know.
It was bad when my boys were teens but both got apprenticeships then. 30 years ago.
Now that isn't an option....or rarely.

Whoops that should read 20 years ago

Having grown up on the North Wales coast, Liverpool was always a bit difficult to get to. By train, you can't avoid a change at Chester. I don't think there were ever any direct trains even before the days of the Beeching cuts, it's just that the place you changed at was different.

Going to Crewe is easier because there is a through train, but what is there in Crewe these days?

In some respects getting to London is easier, because of the Holyhead to London service, which connects to the Ferry to Ireland.

I'm in Scotland, at a station a mile away I can get a direct train to London and be there in just over 5 hours.

We are going to Liverpool next month and it means 2 changes of train and nearly 5 hours journey.

Sometimes you feel its a long road for a shortcut...

I can drive to Cardiff from home in 25 minutes outside of rush hour (around 45 using the backroutes during). To get a bus I'd have to walk around a mile to the nearest bus stop, probably wait 20-30 minutes for two to turn up at once, then sit in the rush hour traffic for an hour before reaching the wrong end of town. So a commute to work would take at least twice as long as driving. In 12 years I've never taken the bus.

We're between 2 train stations, one is 3 miles and the other 4 miles in the opposite direction. Would take 2 buses to get to the nearest and 3 to get to the other, and goodness knows how much time. If I have to get the train I drive to a station I can easily park at and get it for 1-2 stops. And this is in prime Cardiff commuter belt. It's ridiculous. Apparently the new metro will make a huge difference, but I shan't hold my breath.

I might be talking bollocks,but it's not just wales...never would you get me on a plane.so we holiday in the U.K..a lot of the seaside resorts are going to the dogs..why isn't our government investing in them,and attracting overseas holiday makers and why are we all so quick to jump ship and holiday overseas

We need to go back to having more industry in the U.K...instead of buying goods in from other counties..make things in the U.K...cut benefit costs by giving people a job in their area..be better for the uk all round.self sufficient and reduced benefit claims

holiday overseas

Reliably warm weather. It can be as hot as Spain or Italy here, but it can just as easily be throwing it down with rain.

why are we all so quick to jump ship and holiday overseas

I alternate between Uk and abroad for holidays. Inevitably we have poor weather here and then we struggle to find things to do - especially with teenagers. The holidays in the UK usually cost more and food is often of poorer quality. Activities cost a fortune, you need to take toms of clothes as you have no idea what the weather will be like.

I prefer the years we go abroad - it's cheaper and more relaxing.

hecantbeserious - where we live in south england its much the same ref driving to the local town and buses - 30 mins car, or 1 hour for the bus. BR stations - 30 mins driving or 1 hour public transport one way; 1 hour driving and i have no idea ref public transport the other. ie the valleys are really not much different to a lot of places ref transport.

would i go on holiday in the valleys - no. i like to sit in the sun, have a nice meal, sip a nice glass of wine, explore, lay on the beach. whilst i've holidayed quite happily in wales i'm not sure the welsh valleys would offer this.

I live in North West Wales, its a 10 second walk to the nearest bus stop. However, no buses either way after 5.30pm or on Sundays. 10 minute walk to train station, however just to get to Aberystwyth involves a 1 hour wait at Machynlleth, it takes 4 hours to get to Birmingham. DS hasn't gone to the local college because of the lack of subjects offered. Instead he spends 5 hours on a bus each day to give himself as big a chance as possible of making something of himself. We are forgotten out here, hospitals are an hour's drive away, public transport diabolical, the only chance of work is family run business or seasonal work.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm Welsh.

I live in the heart of the Valleys (Blaenau Gwent), grew up on a council estate and am now in my early 30's.

The problems we have with unemployment are absolutely nothing to do with Transport or Lack of Development of Large organisations. Yes there are some issues with both of these, however, a large portion of the people who are unemployed, want to be. And that is the problem, the attitude of (some not all of) the people is that they're "better off on benefits". The people I grew up with never wanted more for themselves, they are all happy to spend their income support (because they can't work) on cider and fags.

DP & I both grew up with unemployed parents in social housing. Neither of us went to university as we realised pretty early on that it wouldn't give us a good employment around here. We both (separately) found gaps in the market in our interested areas and worked bloody hard doing whichever jobs paid to save while we still lived with our parents to get our own businesses off the ground.

My children's school has 49% Free School Meals!

We employ many locals but to be honest, their lack of punctuality, high sickness and alcohol and drug abuse always prevents them remaining in any job very long.l as they simply stop turning up.

If some people in Wales wanted to earn and get good jobs, it's there and available. The ones who aren't interested are the problem.

amireallycrazy some gross generalisations about why haven't people got work in Wales there.

I wonder what salary and terms and conditions you are oh so generously offering people in your business?

You sound up your self and preachy.

I haven't made gross generalisations I've said the ones who aren't interested are the problem. I specifically said some, not all.

I am neither up myself or preachy, I come from a highly deprived family life and am proud of where I am now. Why would that be a bad thing?

Taking the piss out of me offering people jobs (that actually come with very a good salary including a company car to avoid transport issues) is really strange when you are defending people without jobs in Wales

amireally - my husband has a number of relatives similar to the people you describe. as i said earlier up the thread, when i said i didn't want to back to work after maternity level, several suggested going sick. my husband has a number of relatives with dubious illnesses on the sick.

another relative complained for years about lack of jobs. recently it came to light that actually there were jobs but people had to travel for 30 mins to get to them. isn't that normal in most places?

PollyPerky - thank you so, so much for the £10 per year I probably save on prescriptions (if that). I am so grateful to you my generous English benefactors and apologise for not publicly pronouncing my gratitude daily. That annual £10 saving completely offsets the lack of jobs, infrastructure and investment in my country.

(in case you can't tell this is slightly tongue in cheek. I do recognise that Wales & Scotland get some subsidies from the government. But I don't think that I should have to express my fore-lock-tugging gratitude for that to each individual taxpayer any more than the people of Birmingham should pronounce their thanks to the Welsh villages that got flooded for reservoirs everytime they have a shower).

Also - just in case you don't understand - it's the Welsh govt. that decides to allocate the resources towards prescriptions specifically. If they didn't the money wouldn't go back to the English tax payer - it would go to cut waiting lists in Wales, or to schools or some other devolved function. As a previous poster says - Westminster could vote to have free prescriptions but the money would then have to be cut from somewhere else. They are two separate goverments which allocate their funding separately.

Also what's with all this 'well Wales voted for Brexit' nonsense. Yes parts of Wales did, but parts didn't. England as a whole had a stronger leave percentage than Wales. If you are Scottish/Northern Irish then fair enough with the Brexit moral high ground but if you're English you're just as much of a turkey that voted for Christmas...

I can also recognise the description by amireally, I'm not suggesting for a minute that it applies to everyone, but it is valid.

There is a generation (or two) of people who were brought up on benefits and who see it as a way of life. Going to work would really muck up their routine of hanging around doing fuck all all day - something they've been doing for years and what their friends do and all their family do. It's hard to break out and it's hard for them to see the benefit of work when their simple pleasures are all provided for and they complain that it's all someone else's fault. School was never valued or encouraged, absence levels high so why wouldn't you do the same if you had a job?

I actually find it hard to blame them, I'd love about 6 months off work just to get my house organised and tidy and clean. it's never going to happen as i just don't have the nature to do it. I was brought up in poverty, but I was brought up in poverty by two working parents. The work ethic in our family has always been high as a consequence.

I don't know what the answer is, but it definitely has to start with young children so that they grow up with hope and ambition and confidence.

I grew up in the valleys, just outside Caerphilly then moved to the Rhondda as it was where DH & and I could afford to buy.

Transport is definitely an issue, the timings, and the cost.

My first job was in Cardiff, retail. My last bus home was at 6.08pm, about an hours journey. After that it was 2 buses with a long wait inbetween or a bus and a taxi I couldn't afford. The late night buses could be scary as well, then having to wait around for maybe an hour for the second one... Couldn't often afford the train and even when I could I still had an hour to wait at the other end. Sunday's were next to impossible on public transport as it didn't start until after 1pm for a bus to Caerphilly and then there was something like a two hour wait for a train.

From the Rhondda I used the trains as the buses would have doubled my journey time and only saved me £16 a month - but I could afford to buy a monthly pass on the train. I think it was over £7.50 for a return to Cardiff when I moved again, the monthly pass was about £100 - a lot of money up front if you don't have it.

Generally services were reasonable up until 6-7pm. If you needed to work later it could start getting difficult especially if you didn't live within walking distance of a train station.

Transport during working hours (and what is considered normal working hours needs to be expanded - 7am-8pm maybe?) needs to be more frequent and it needs to be affordable. Maybe the Job Centre should pay for the first months transport when someone gets a job.

Problems with the valleys though, I don't know what the answer is. You can say they should all move, but where to? Places with jobs? Rents tend to be higher in those areas for that very reason.

What about those in the valleys who own their homes and/or who are elderly, you'll have destroyed the community around them. And what would we do with all those empty houses?

I know the hopelessness, the lack of ambition, I grew surrounded by it in the '90s. I was one of the few girls in my year who wasn't pregnant in her teens. I didn't go out drinking, I didn't take drugs, but so many of my peers did and did terrible damage to themselves. My school had already written the lot of us off, we weren't expected to do A Levels or go to University. Is it any wonder that some parents in these places don't value education when their teachers threw them on the scrapheap based on their postcode?

we don't have late busses where we live and the last one back is at 6pm similar to you. nearest trains are 1 hour away. its not a deprived area though, despite the lack of decent jobs - mostly in the tourist industry. that suggests to me that transport can't be the issue - perhaps its more to do with parents/schools and aspirations as i think you touch on.

Transport is an issue if you need to travel to work.

When I was looking for a job I signed up with all the agencies and had to turn down quite a few temporary jobs because they were almost impossible to get to on public transport - well I could have got to them but the chances of getting to them on time were non-existent. Mostly they were jobs on industrial estates in out of the way places, the sort that if you don't live locally you really need to be able to drive to get to.

Even in Cardiff it can be difficult - my office has moved premises, we looked at one place on the other side of Cardiff to where I live now and getting there on time (and home) would have been a nightmare. If we'd moved there I'd have had to find another job sharpish as I'd have struggled to do my contracted hours.

Maybe the Job Centre should pay for the first months transport when someone gets a job.

They do, or used to. The problem is the advisers aren't supposed to tell you about this. So if you don't know this help exists you can't claim it. I was lucky and on the day I signed off I got the lovely helpful adviser who did tell me about it and gave me the form which got me the cost of my first month's fares - with instructions not to let on that he was the one who had told me about this benefit.

There is also a form for help with buying work clothing which is more for tradespeople who need specific safety kit before going on site.

Though the uselessness of the Jobcentre isn't Wales-specific and is another subject of rant altogether.

"Maybe Corbyn can start that discussion when Labour has finished its in-fighting."

Corbyn hasn't got a clue about Wales. He wants to re-open the mines and thinks Cardiff Bus is good.

"I am not saying that the Welsh are unintelligent, but when generations have lacked educational opportunities and drive, you can't suddenly stick in a whole load of graduate level jobs and expect that to solve the problem. You need the base level jobs at the moment because that's where people are, then you raise the levels over the generations."

No, you need to have ambition for your people. I knew that Cardiff had ended up with lots of call centres, what I didn't understand until a few years ago was that politicians had asked them to come. That's what they think of us - call centre fodder. And now, of course, the call centres and other lower skilled work just move to poorer countries.