Do people equate marriage and children with "success"?

[PaintedNails]

NC for this as it could out me.

I'm 30 and my brother is 33. We have always been quite successful in academic studies and have good careers now in fields that interest us both and are quite specialist. I don't know if it's a coincidence or not but both of us have never really got off the ground with relationships. I've had a few dalliances and one long term one about 10 years ago but since then nothing serious (not for want of trying I might add). He is chronically shy but trying to meet people.

Anyway that's a bit of the background. We have two aunts and both have two children (so four cousins) and they're a similar age to us. Whenever we meet at a family event the only thing our family want to know is if we are dating anyone. They switch off about everything else. The cousins are all settled and either married or living with a partner, a couple of them have kids, and I swear they look at us with pity/ amusement. It's the first thing they ask us each time.

So the thing that really pushed me to to post this is I think one of my aunts is being a bit bitchy to me, she gave me a gift for my birthday, a bracelet which had an engraving: "Better to have lived and lost than never to have loved at all." Do you think that's a weird thing to give to a 30 year old niece? I think it's such a weird engraving!

AIBU to think people write you off as a failure if you're not married with kids?

I was 34 when I got married - and popped out 3 babies by the time I hit 41. I'm hoping it does equate with success as didn't do particularly well at school and certainly haven't had a 'career' as such.

Your aunt is bizarre - but possibly well- meaning?

Basically it's horses for courses - everyone is different. Not everyone would necessarily be happy having a relationship even. I have a friend who has an excellent career as a university lecturer, who travels around a lot to various conferences etc, and has had several books published.

She lives on her own and has lots of friends visiting at times, but likes her own company.

Your aunt may think she's a 'failure' but my friend would also think your aunt is simplistic and weird!

I see success as meeting your goals .
Most people are more successful in some areas of their lives than in others.

For some people meeting a partner who enhances their life and building a family is a success. For other people drifting into marriage and kids is a consolation prize for any number of things : the dull default .

People who constantly go on about 'have you got a boyfriend?' are tedious . Then they move on to 'ooh, are you trying for s baby?' and then go on and on about 'a little brother or sister ' and then when you do get pg again 'I bet you are hopping for a boy / girl this time ' and so it goes, on and on.

It sounds as if they don't have the reach of mind to have any interest in your careers.

Smile and nod, unless you feel like saying 'good lord, do you people have nothing else to talk about?'.

Your aunt is either oblivious and just thought 'aw, nice quote ' without really thinking or understanding , or she is a wing nut.

I think it is very patronising to suggest that people who do not wish to talk about careers and your work when your are at home are somewhat small minded.

sometimes it's not an interesting topic. I think it just depends on what you are interested in. Some people become only interested in discussing work, your work, their work...equally dull if you are not interested.

And they just go on about whether their cousins have found a partner?

It is basic politeness to ask even just a bit about people's work.

You don't think the OP might feel patronised by the married cousins going on about nothing but dating?

Anyone one-track has small horizons .

You don't need to be married or have children or rich, or have an amazing career, big house etc. to live a successful life.
I think that the people who live the most successful lives are content with their lives, humble & kind.

As for the Aunts gift, buy them bracelets with this engraved on them...

Or just smile & ignore & throw the bracelet in the bin!!! 😂

You don't need to be anything in particular to have a successful life. Just finding contentment with youself is probably plenty.

As pp's have said, you can't win either way. If you're a SAHM it's always 'When are you going to go to work?' . If you aren't married but have a career, it's 'When are you getting married?'

What I find incredible is :

A. Obligation throughout life. Are you courting? Are you engaged? Are you going to uni? Do you have a job yet? Have you not had a promotion? When we you getting married? Kids? If you have just one, then it's when are you having another kid? Et etc ad infinitum.

Also, why do all these people care about your bloody love ife? Who gives a fuck? Is it because their own lives are so bloody tedious? Probably.

Some people do but to me no because truth is anyone can get married and anyone can have children

I was very very similar to you at the same age, and some people seemed to think I was incomplete without a husband and kids, and some people seemed to envy my career success and carefree lifestyle. I just shrugged it off because I was happy with how things were.

By the time I got to 34, 35 I was much more aware of, and annoyed by, the "have you met anyone?" stuff, but I suspect the only thing that had really changed was that I was no longer as satisfied with just the high-flying career, and was therefore more sensitive to the comments.

If it makes you feel any better I met my husband at 36, had 4 kids in 5 years from 38, and am now a SAHP! And still get comments on my lifestyle, just for the opposite reason!

Oh op there's so much fun you could have....

You could totally invent a vivid,scandalous and interesting romantic life to throw your aunts off the scent.

Weird gift, are you sure it is not second-hand and she has not noticed the engraving?

I think success is personal. I knew from a very early age I wanted to be a mum, and it took me a very long time to find the right husband, get married and have our daughter! Had I not found the right man I think I would have adopted and been a mum that way, it was very important to me.

I think if your relatives have this agenda all you can do is tell them about the things that are on your agenda and the goals you are reaching. If, however, you do want to marry and have kids, then go for it. I met my dh in my 30s from a dating agency, I had to have some fertility treatment (IUI) to have our dd and we adopted our son almost two and a half years ago. So it took a long time for us to 'complete' our family and it was not easy, but it was what I wanted. I like my job but it is not really what I would call a career. I love all the things I do in life, with church, with friends and I really think you should own the things you like and love and if your relatives are actually open with you about their agenda explain that you are happy.

At my younger sister's Wedding an old aunt patted single me kindly on the arm &'said "never mind dear, at least you have your career".

I think she was genuinely trying to comfort
Me. I hadn't realised that I needed comforted.

Anyway I think she was being kind. Both aunts I mean. You're only 30. Don't worry, you'll meet someone (ha!). Seriously though, it was different in their day. You're totally normal. Don't even worry about it.

Well done on career to date btw.

When I was 30 my great Aunt gave me a tea set and said "I was waiting to give you this when you married but maybe you'll never be married so I'd better give it to you now".

She did attend my wedding a few years later but in the interim my friends and I used to drink tequila from the tea cups.

At 32 I had 2 kids and and ok career. I was starting off a new business. Someone I met through the new business was 29, no marriage no kids but this amazing business that everybody loved.

I was in awe at what he achieved in quite a small space of time. He thought I was mad. He was insanely jealous (but lovely with it) that I had been married 12 years with 2 kids and starting a business. To him I was the successful one.

My point is that success is objective. I realised that actually I had done a lot. And he realised how much he had done.

I do think some people equate success to martial status and wether you have kids. But equally there are people who only equate success with a high flying career, or a big house, or flash car.

For me it's about being happy. Wether you are married or not, child free or not, have a big house or not.

The gift was really odd. Clearly your aunt is one of those people who thinks people can only be happy if they are in a long term relationship.

But if you were married and had kids you would have come across people who viewed that as giving up on success as well.

Success is about being happy. You do sort of set your own criteria. We don't generally ask about academic quals in the family as we either all have them or are too young. After graduation, what is there to say?

How's work? Can be a very loaded question, and one that you don't really want to answer. I agree it's the same as when are you starting a family? I try to stick to neutral topics such as great British bake off! Although I do ask after family as they post lots of pics of baby so I know that's a safe topic in my family.

Success in life is how you define it.

You also notice the question that irritates but the rest of the conversation you perhaps forget. So it might be aunt talks if lots of things but it always sticks in ops mind that all she ever asks about is X.

My guess is your bracelet was on sale in some department store and it was there because it is a rediculous gift and was not selling well. Your aunt thought the bracelet was pretty and the quote cliche and just brought it. It does not make it any better though.

And I agree with
Happiness = Success

Elodie I love that idea!

Just to clarify the bracelet was new, in a little mesh bag with tags on and the aunt's other two female nieces got different jewellery without the naff engraving. The engraving is in big black letters all around the outside, plus the aunt is only 50 and a young 50 so not exactly particularly out of touch with things (she thinks of herself as very young and trendy).

You're all correct that happiness and fulfilling your own personal goals equates to success. My parents never put pressure on me luckily or look down on me in the way this extended family does so at least that's something! I guess I'll just have to meet a gorgeous wealthy man and bring him to meet them all to shut them up chance would be a fine thing I would love to see what the next bracelet said if I did though!

It's a bit of a strange gift. You might buy it yourself after becoming widowed, maybe...? But as a present for someone who has been single for a while, it is a bit weird. Is it a nice looking bracelet? Could it be possible that your aunt didn't realise it has an engraving and just bought it because she thought the style was attractive?

I don't think marriage + kids = success, but I do think it = normality, and those of us who don't sit in the same place as the normal folk sometimes have to fight quite hard to remind ourselves that it's OK to be different. I do often think it would be easier if I was like all the normal people, but I know I don't have the same goals as them and it would be fairly miserable pretending to be happy in a seemingly happy life while secretly dying inside.

If you're happy with your lifestyle choices, sod everyone else. You have to live with being you, not them.

I don't think it equates success but sadly many people think it does. I am "settling down" quite late by getting married in my late 30's and to some people this seems to validate me more, than for example my son who I raised single handedly for 7 years, my degrees or postgrad qualifications. It's quite sad really that for so many, getting married is seen as the pinnacle of success.

I think she bought it to make a deliberate dig at you. I'd be tempted to buy her a bracelet for the next big occasion with the engraving "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"

Sometimes you see success through what people told you success would be. Perhaps for your aunty therefore it was marriage and babies. Definitely generational stuff in there too at a guess.

It was a really weird gift.

You are very successful - my poor dad has never had a job he enjoyed and messed up school and he tells me regularly that if he could do it over he'd love to go to uni and specialise in something.

Career, stability, babies, love... They're all factors that can make people feel more "whole" I guess?

But I got more likes on Facebook for getting up the duff/getting married than getting a first for my degree or getting a great job SO it's interesting how the gendered stuff around "success" is still so prevalent.

Your aunt sounds crazy. I would give the bracelet back and tell her you find the engraving a bit too strange do you would t wear it.

Success in life is being happy and content In your life however you choose to live it.