To want to go to Abu Dhabi?

[ReturnoftheWhack]

Ok.

Here's the deal. A good friend of mine is living in Abu Dhabi teaching in a primary school and living on a western compound. She wants me to go and stay with her, I'd bloody love to. Thinking of three or four days in February.

Here's the sticking point.

DH is super scared by tales of terrorism, ISIS, threats etc. Currently doesn't want me to take kids to London due to perceived danger.

What are your experiences of Abu Dhabi? Do you consider it to be a dangerous place at the moment? Anyone got some facts I can throw at him?! This isn't a case of him not allowing me to go, I'll pay for myself out of my own money...he just worries, and that comes from a good place. How harsh would I be to just go anyway? To be honest, I'm desperate for a break. I've got two kids, 2 and 5, I work full time...the idea of a kid free few days is just blissful.

Prawn that happens all over the world outside of most cosy European North American and Australasian first world countries. It seems a little pointless to single out Abu Dhabi and Dubai.

Statistically you're in more danger on the road driving to the airport than you are from a terrorist attack either here in the UK or in AD or anywhere else for that matter. Your DH is being daft.

The humidity is bloody dangerous this morning. My sunglasses fogged up when I got out of the car. Thank goodness it should be over soon and we will be getting into good weather!

I love Abu Dhabi and I've been here for 6 years (more than Doha where I lived for 5 years and still visit frequently). I also like Dubai, but only for visiting.

In terms of terrorism or threats, I wouldn't worry. There's not much that escapes the Abu Dhabi police.

I make a point of only spending holidays in places where I can feel at least somewhat at ease about how the locals are living. I appreciate this may seem odd, but if more people felt the same these vile regimes would lose the money they get from tourism and it might encourage them to improve matters.

Or it would make things worse. First off Abu Dhabi isn't dependent on tourism dollars. Secondly, most of the vast improvements in human rights and transparency (and there have been huge improvements even if it's still not great) in Dubai have been spurred by the need to attract tourism.

Most countries that you've seen improve their human rights records and transparency have done so because they have to fit into the international market and work with Western companies that have higher standards. By avoiding places with poor human rights records you're just, technically, supporting them to stay poor and uneducated.

The knobheads were later than usual

😂 they were weren't they?

I'm not singling out Abu Dhabi, CoYo. There are plenty of other places I wouldn't dream of spending a holiday in. I personally cannot relax or have fun knowing that the locals are living under such appalling conditions. I'm a bit flexible, it's unrealistic to expect all countries to share our values, but if I'd be terrified to live in certain conditions /under certain regimes then I won't visit as a tourist. I wouldn't go to Saudi Arabia either, for example. Or Pakistan.

I don't think I'm allowed to go to Dubai - seeing as I'm trans. People like me get arrested and detained there.

time.com/4447749/transgender-gigi-gorgeous-dubai-detained/

Not sure about Abu Dhabi. Are they more tolerant?

But I'm sure people like the op will have no issues there.

What about Thailand prawn?

Prawn trust me when I say that no locals are living under appalling conditions in Abu Dhabi and the fact that you phrased it that way shows how little you know about the place.

rust me when I say that no locals are living under appalling conditions in Abu Dhabi and the fact that you phrased it that way shows how little you know about the place

Is it ok to be gay in Abu Dhabi?

Buy on the whole I am in agreement with your sentiment. It is unrealistic to expect everywhere to share our values but there's a fine line between being tolerant and accepting of different cultural values and turning a blind eye to heinous things because they have nice beaches and cheap shopping. It's a dilemma I agree, but honestly, on balance there are places I have much much more of an internal moral moral struggle with than UAE.

Officially it is not allowed to practice homosexuality no but if you think that means that very obviously gay/camp men dare not set foot outside their homes for fear of being identified and arrested or attacked then you are very naive. There are lots of things that officially are not tolerated but unofficially a blind eye is turned so long as people are careful about how they conduct themselves in public.

But again, it would be grossly unfair to single out UAE for that when most of the world is still the same in that regard.

Take Thailand, they may be much more accepting and enlightened about people's sexuality, transgender issues etc but they have an utterly appalling record when it comes to protecting children from being encouraged into prostitution and being exposed to sexual predators.

My friends been several times and loves it, travelled by herself to stay with a friend there and never felt in danger.

But again, it would be grossly unfair to single out UAE for that when most of the world is still the same in that regard

Indeed not. But when you are trans or LGB, you've just got to be careful which countries you go to on holiday or for potential work. UAE is just one of them.

You say no locals are living under appalling conditions, CoYo. Would that include those people "disappeared" by the state or tortured in custody? Or the horrors endured by migrant workers there? Sorry, but it doesn't wash.

And no, I wouldn't book a holiday in Thailand either, especially since the military coup. The issue of sexual exploitation is particularly concerning. I look on any man who holidays there either singly or with other men very much askance.

I know two gay guys who are cabin crew for a gulf airline who live together out there. It's completely obvious they are a couple. They are also both pretty camp and stereotypically gay iykwim. Of course they can't get the same rights as a married couple and officially they are just two male colleagues who happen to share an apartment like loads of single expats do. There are also bars and clubs where it is accepted that you can meet gay people but it's kept very much under the radar and not announced as Gay Night in the local Time Out 😂

Of course it wouldn't include migrant workers but you said locals. Migrant workers are not locals. There is an issue with workers rights and human rights for migrant workers from Asia and the Indian subcontinent in particular yes, but then they have the same issues in their home countries too.

I have no idea about and UAE citizens being 'disappeared' or tortured, I don't doubt it's happened as in most places in the world at some time or other but I think it's not quite the big problem in AD that you think it is, compared to other places. Some people seem to think The UAE is up there with Iraq, Iran or Afghanistan.

I'm glad you see it as an ethical dilemma, CoYo. I guess it depends where you draw the line. I get depressed when people rave on about a holiday with, as you say, nice beaches and cheap shopping, and the only things I associate with that destination are human rights abuses or just desperate poverty. It started for me a very long time ago when, as a student, I hitched through France, Spain, and ended up in Morocco, where I witnessed numerous people crippled by conditions that would have been fixed so easily in the UK. I saw desperate poverty. I couldn't relax. I couldn't pretend I hadn't seen what I had seen. For me it's no fun to be massively privileged over those who live in the countries I am visiting.

My approach is not for everyone, I know. My parents went to China not because they endorsed the regime but because they were fascinated to visit the place. I wouldn't be able to go, and that's a disadvantage. There are lots of places I'd love to see, but never will because of my principles. But they remain my principles and they give me a clear conscience in this one small respect.

I guess it depends where you draw the line. I get depressed when people rave on about a holiday with, as you say, nice beaches and cheap shopping, and the only things I associate with that destination are human rights abuses or just desperate poverty.

Not being goady - but what countries do meet your ethical standards for a holiday destination prawn?

Ego17 Elton John plays in Dubai fairly frequently. Some of my best friends here are gay and happily living together. For transgender, a woman is currently appealing the Supreme Court to be allowed to transition into a man. Apparently there's support in the Quran for allowing transition. So we will see. In Gigi's case....I find it hard to believe that she was stopped purely for being transgender. There are transgender here, and they live fairly openly, especially among the locals. I would suspect there's more to the story.

Generally you only get in trouble for homosexuality or transgender issues if you are being blatantly stupid and having sex on a beach or running naked through the malls.

I understand completely and I have the same feelings about certain places where I just see a culture that to
Me is steeped in unspeakable cruelty. I feel that way about China to be honest because of the way they treat animals. I realise there are probably aspects of the culture that are appealing too but I just can't get past the bad stuff. Ditto India for various reasons. But I do think having been to the UAE and other gulf states numerous times, it isn't actually anything like you would imagine it to be if you haven't been there. It's far more civilized and peaceful and tolerant than you might imagine. It's not exactly Sweden but neither is it some extremist Islamic hellhole.

The answer to your question, Yello, is not many. It's not a convenient principle.

Let's just gloss over the fact that pretty much the entire hospitality industry in London is staffed by illegal cleaners who sleep in basements and don't even exist. Or the thousands of illegal drivers. Half the Bangladeshi people i encounter have a brother or uncle who is "an illegal" in their words, raking it in with no access to health care etc. I pity people who are so pathetic and naive that they think reading the Guardian and living in an Edwardian semi in a little quaint market town makes then so bloody world wise. Not a clue. But then it's a parenting forum rather than a travel, politics or education forum.

Prawn, not to see sidestep your point entirely, but there is no cheap shopping in the UAE. It's a myth. We may be tax-free (technically) but the mark-up is massive. It's far cheaper to shop in the UK.
Fit, the Emirati lady in question is not transgender - she is intersex. The change in insurance laws doesn't endorse sex reassignment surgery, unless it is to 'correct' a congenital issue. If you are transgender and, for example, did not 'pass' as female but wore women's clothes, yes, the police would intervene. We've had people deported fairly recently for this in Dubai.