To think this was a crime (school related)

[youarenotkiddingme]

A few months ago a student pulled a knife out of their pocket in class and aimed it towards DS.

I was phoned, told DS was fine, student removed etc and it was written on parent page as I was informed there had been an altercation between DS and another student, student pulled a knife. Ds was neither threatened not hurt.

School said police involved and DS made a statement. Police had no record of incident and so opened a case stating it as "common assault".

Police went into school, spoke to DHT and sent an email saying stories were 'similar' and school dealt with it correctly.

I decided no charges to be bought.

Ds hasn't been able to attend as HT woukdnt meet with me and DS too anxious. They woukdnt authorise absense despite him seeing GP about anxiety relating to this event (DS is already a under Camhs).

He is on a MM.

Complaint in about it as school failed to respond to previous concerns with this lad and support DS after. They are saying no crime as police agreed school dealt with it properly and the only reports are DS statement and one from teacher who fully admits he didn't see what happened until he was informed student had a knife.

Their defense is no crime so not safeguarding issue.

But this is a crime? He was carrying a weapon and he pulled the weapon?

Can I also retropesctively press charges and so a proper investigation is carried out and witness statements sought?

I'm pretty sure that I know that having a knife in a school is in itself a specific crime. If it were an internal incident (eg knife found in a child's bag, school confiscated it) then it would be down to the school as to how they deal with it. They could permanently exclude, or be more lenient - up to them.

However, if the police were involved and in attendance, and there is evidence of the knife (such as the knife itself or witness reports) then I don't think whether you want to press charges or not comes into it - a crime has been committed, there is evidence, the police have to act on that evidence and charge.

I also think if someone pulled a knife out of their pocket and aimed it at someone that IS threatening, unless they were about the length of a football field away!

Can I also retropesctively press charges and so a proper investigation is carried out and witness statements sought?

You don't "press charges" in the UK. You can report an incident to the police who will then decide if they will pass to the CPS to consider a prosecution.

There are laws about the possession of a knife in public depending on the size of the blade and whether it folds etc. Once you have taken out a knife and threatened someone you ( " Student pulled a knife") then you do have other offences committed. The offence of " common assault" can be committed if someone's in fear of force / violence being used on them ( dragging this out from the back of my brain!) rather than actually having force used on them ( which is in fact a battery). If there is any evidence that an offence was committed then the police force in question should have recorded the incident as a crime under National Crime reporting standards. It doesn't matter if they think the schools response was appropriate or sufficient to deal with the matter. It is enough for you or your son to make the allegation to them to warrant the recording of the crime. I don't know how old your son is but its really his decision and not yours about whether he wants to proceed with the matter. The school do not get to decide one way or another. Overall I think someone should be doing something about a kid rocking up at school with a knife who thinks its ok to take it out and brandish it during an altercation.

which is why I've reported this thread, Lass and Spirited.

Ps is there actually any evidence that the boy had the knife? Was the knife recovered? In which case it's more than one persons word against another. Even if the knife was not recovered it does not prevent the crime being recorded and a proper investigation being completed. The fact that you didn't really want to know at the time doesn't stop you from reporting the incident now, although there are no guarantees that any formal action will be taken. It would mean that there would be a formal record should this boy be involved in any other violent incidents in the future. Sorry nerdiest post ever

Indent get why it's reported? I'm just asking a question?

DS made a statement to police. Boy had short term exclusion for incident. No question he had a knife or it was pulled.

Question is now claiming DS wasn't victim of crime and I want to know how I can get it logged he was. He actually was sent a victim support leaflet by police!

Thanks for asking cauli MM seems to be going ok. Early days and a few teething problems but DS was always going to find it difficult to transition and trust a school after what happened.

Sorry if I've missed something, was the MM from the knife pulling school or to it?
If it was from the school then I'm not sure what it is that you're trying to achieve so far after the event?

If the MM is going well does that mean he has moved to another school and is attending? In which case, I don't understand the issue. Are you being fined for his previous absence?

MM was because of incident.

I have reasons for needing to know if it's a crime or not.

And I know people think MM is ok but it's not really when a child has all the extra travel, parent has the expense of extra travel as well as time and child doesn't attend a school near to their peers - when the situTion shouldn't have occurred.

Thanks for all the advice. Seems most people are in agreement with me about situation re knife so I'll speak to polive about it for clarification.

As I understand it, the school are minimising the incident because the police allowed them to deal with it internally. They're saying that as they punished the other boy then OP & her DS should just get over it.

OP, why don't you start by asking the police for a copy of the report they made. Also contacting Victim Support may be of some use.

Pretty much shelby with the added byline that it's totally irrelevant they did nothing to support DS because he has a school now.

Basically they didn't fulfill their duty of care and IMO should be held accountable regardless of whether it works out for the best for DS or not.

Ah so you're after revenge against the school?

Maybe your DS would benefit more from just letting it drop and moving away from the issue which has made him so anxious?

Don't be ridiculous it's not revenge.

there needs to be a review of policy and practice to prevent it happening again. If no body is ever held accountable we'll have more and more of this happening (there's plenty of threads about re the victims being the ones having to move).

Every child should feel safe and be able to attend their local school.

I am focussing on making the move work. But the affect suffered as been horrific and if I can't just prevent one more family suffering as we have it'll be worth it.

If you want to see the school investigated and held to account then you can do two things: put a complaint in to the local authority and a complaint to Ofsted. It may trigger a section 8 inspection by Ofsted to review safeguarding.

Complaint in with governors. But when we discussed incident was told it couldn't be classed as safeguarding issue as no crime took place.

I was taken aback. Because now it appears it's all being allowed to disappear whilst knife boy remains in school and DS struggles to settle somewhere new miles away.

I don't think it's an la issue as school an academy. I can't escalate to Secretary of State until I've been through complaints process.

I didn't expect them to say "oh yes, we failed in safeguarding" but I also didn't expect them to deny any thing criminal had occurred.

Clearly a crime did take place - am not a lawyer so don't know specific offences, but threatening behaviour and possession of weapon. The fact that the police decided not to attempt a prosecution does not change that fact.

For example - people report historical sex offences but the police often decide there isn't enough evidence to take to the CPS - crimes were still committed though.

Yes it may be considered a criminal offence, but who registered a complaint and pressed charges.

The school did not and is under nor obligation to do so.

That leaves it in the court of the poster. If you did not press charges then what did you expect to happen?

Separate issue and one for the behaviour policy but offensive weapon in school is normally permanent exclusion.

This is a bit confusing tbh. Whether something is a crime isn't really up to us or you or the school, it's up to the Police to charge and courts to prosecute and punish. So why does it make any difference to the school whether something is technically a crime or terrible behaviour?

You can still report to the LEA even if it is an academy. It is a safeguarding issue. The safeguarding bit is that a pupil had a knife in school, pulled it out and threatened someone. If dealt with similar at my own school. Kids pulling out a lighter is a safeguarding issue. The only real thing that let's your case down is that the complaint is so long after the event.

A local school have just been inspected because they allowed pupils off site. That is a safeguarding issue. A crime doesn't need to take place for it to be a safety issue.

Pupil was excluded for 2 days. Behaviour policy says can be instant exclusion.

Ds reported to police. Ds police happy school dealt with it effectively. Sent email saying DS and school version of events are 'similar' and police leave these things up to school to deal with.

Complaint isn't so far after event. This happened towards end of term. I had to deal with a terrified DS and try and get him a new school for new term. Then summer holidays and so waited until school would be open to file complaint.

I'm not surprised posters are confused! I am too. I thought where it's clear a weapon has been used and reported a weapon has been used and a punishment has been used for use of weapon - how it can then be denied anything criminal occurred!

It's madness and very draining.

T4nut there is no such thing as pressing charges in the UK... The police decide whether to put a case forward for prosecution, not the victim.

The school is claiming that as a crime wasn't committed, they won't regard this as a safeguarding incident. But that's bollocks on two counts - firstly a crime does not have to be committed for to be a safeguarding issue, and secondly a crime WAS committed, just not referred for prosecution.

Thanks what so it may be better for me to stick to calling it safeguarding rather than trying to prove it was due to criminal activity but referring to it as the student having a knife?

This isn't sarcastic btw can can I ask that those posters who suggest I just 'move on' - if your child had a knife pulled on them and was forced to move schools due to fear and lack of support adding a cost (financially and to time) would you seriously just shrug your shoulders and say "oh well?"

Complaint in with governors. But when we discussed incident was told it couldn't be classed as safeguarding issue as no crime took place.

What nonsense. How about possession of an offensive weapon and threatening behaviour? Any governor who thinks it's perfectly fine for a pupil to carry a knife on school premises and draw it on his fellow pupils isn't fit for office. Many schools would impose permanent exclusion simply for possessing the knife.

Yeah that's my point. That by only excluding for a few days knowing my DS wouldn't return with him there and not actually taking any steps to support my DS to return to their school they've failed to follow the peer on peer safeguarding policy.

But their point is there was an 'incident' but DS wasn't the victim of common assault.

I did visit police station yesterday - lady on desk was brilliant. A Sargent in ringing me to discuss as I've asked for clarification.

I simply said afaik there wasn't any discrepancy that the common assault took place but rather the police decided the school should deal with it rather than proceed with criminal charges.