Does this sound ok? What happened at school today

[DramaKing]

I've namechanged incase the teacher is a mumsnetter.

My child is in year 4.

Child told me today that the whole class missed PE because some children were talking. They apparently all got changed, got outside then the teacher told them all she'd had enough and to get back instead and change back into uniform.

The teacher next told them "I don't want to come to school tomorrow with you lot but I've got to".

The whole class apparently keep missing 10 minutes of their lunch because a few are talking.

That isn't the first time they've missed PE and they've only been back a couple of weeks.

It all sounds very negative and dc told me the teacher hates them all.

I'm a bit annoyed my child is missing out on exercise and PE because of a few children. Never had this problem in any other class.

Am I wrong? What does the mumsnet jury think?

[Greensmurf1]

If the kids had a chance to do PE it might help maintain energy levels, focus and motivation throughout the day. Cancelling PE sounds pointlessly punitive, done out anger rather than as a natural consequence of kids chatting and is likely to be counter-productive. Why would a teacher want to build resentment and dislike so early in the school year? Do they expect th rest of the class to pressure the naughty ones to get back in line with the teacher's expectations.

[ButterfliesRfree]

I think this happens quite a lot. We saw this with our kids classes. I don't agree with it but apparently it's all about being really strict in the first couple of weeks of the school year, just so the kids know who is boss. Personally I don't think fear and punishment actually works. I think boundaries have their place but not fear and punishment and not when everyone misses out because of a few kids.
I'm sure many teachers have terrible stories to tell about many overactive, non-stop taking kids. Still, I think there's other solutions. Oh and I think PE is actually a great way to run the extra energy out of the kids. Most kids this age need to run around a bit and get the energy out their system. If I were a teacher id probably get the kids out everyday (outside of PE) just to get those who can, run around a bit. It's good for the brain too.

[ButterfliesRfree]

Totally agree with teachers saying when it's not safe then bring them back in or stop the lesson. Absolutely. A lot of schools do use outside areas beyond the school grounds so that makes sense.

[pollymere]

I had this problem with a Year 4 this afternoon! It's unfair on the few who are not talking, and standing sensibly. It wouldn't be just one or two, even if the teacher said its a shame a few are spoiling it for all of you but enough to make PE too much of a risk. If children are not listening or being sensible you get injuries . I've noticed that teachers are generally strict in September and ease up as its easier than trying to do the opposite. Talking and messing about are very common problems in lower KS2. If it is a few, then only they should be penalised at lunch and you'd be right to say something to the school but it so rarely is just a few!

[GDarling]

She should just make the talkers sit to one side for a while, just to watch the fun that the others are having, putting aside/sitting out, any others that continually talk and misbehave.
Also it's often the footballers that are hyper, so maybe a warning that they won't be playing, will do the trick.
She seems to be stressed, go see the head of Juniors, we always had 2 teachers, in case anything happened, injuries etc.
You know what... Not everyone can become a good teacher, the good ones are very special people and they stand out a mile.

[Brighteyes27]

At my DC's primary school thank goodness they are both at Secondary now. It seemed to be common practice to punish the whole class because of one girls behaviour throughout primary. I guess the teacher thought peer pressure might improve the girls behaviour but as her parents openly said they had long since given up trying to discipline her and the teachers had failed it was wrong to regularly burden primary school kids with the responsibility of trying to get this girl to behave. The whole class were regularly late out and missing out of things because of this one girl (this will sound harsh but she probably shouldn't have been at main stream school).

[DrAddisonMontgomery]

She should just make the talkers sit to one side for a while



You ever tried that? So that they can all wind each other up? Or maybe for a couple of fights to break out?

Leaving the ones likely to go wild unsupervised is rarely your best option.

[Frazzledmum123]

Ditsy4 - whole class punishment works well actually, it's peer pressure - see this is the attitude I hate, use the well behaved kids to get the not well behaved ones to do as they should. It's not their job, why should they go without? Alright in this instance it was one lesson (which frankly I would have been overjoyed to have missed), but the attitude stinks that those who are behaving well should be made to be upset to make someone else feel bad (who probably won't give a shit anyway if they are the type to repeatedly ignore a teacher).

If my children misbehave, I expect them to be punished, if they are doing as they are told they shouldnt. It's about teaching them that their actions have consequences not that your actions don't matter if someone else chooses to play up!

[LurksNoLonger]

Year 4 are by far the most challenging year group IMO - the girls tend to be more interested in giving each other "evils" and sneaking in make up whilst the boys are all vying to be the class clown. They have got a handle on being in the juniors and generally their desire to want to listen to or "impress" the teacher had decreased in direct corrolloation with their desire to be popular. I appreciate I am generalising somewhat and I've found even the worst "offenders" in cohorts are gorgeous individuals one-on-one, but as a "pack", by golly, they are labour intensive! 😁😁 By Year Five they've settled back down again and are by and large wonderful, but because in my experience (including with my own DCs) they are the most draining in terms of behaviour I can kind of understand this response. It's not how I'd have handled it, but every teacher is different and we are all human 😃 I'd give it a few weeks to settle down and then perhaps have a quiet, informal word if it happens again.

[pinkiponk]

Thing is, PE is very important. When you're 60 and overweight with type 2 diabetes with a high risk of stroke and heart attack Pythagoras is useless to you. I know my love for sport was set in school (my parents were lazy non fit types), and I thank the school that happened! Maths is not more important than PE. (I say this as someone who did takes maths seriously in school).

As for group punishments, it worked in my military training, it worked bloody well. Is the PE teacher ex forces?! I don't know about using it on kids tho? The sense of injustice was hard to deal with as an adult, kids may not understand/use it in the right way.

[Feartheescalator]

I bloody hated PE at school and would have been disruptive in class every day if I'd thought it would result in cancelled PE

[mummypeepee]

No yanbu. We had exact same with a PE teacher, I fact she left or school I'm wondering if it's the same person and she was vile!

[pollyblack]

Yanbu it makes me really cross when my kids don't do Mile A Day cause someone misbehaved or they "ran out of time".

[RiverTam]

I'm getting fed up of PE being seen as somehow expendable. It isn't. And if there's concern that the children won't hear and follow instructions then send them off for a run. I would have thought that if they're bring nosy and silly a bit of exercise is exactly what they need!

[Longlost10]

PE, and some other subjects are different from maths, in that there is a far higher risk involved, and if a teacher judges that the standard of behaviour will increase the risk, then she will have to cancel the lesson. It has nothing to do with whether she like PE or not.

[Longlost10]

Also the insurance position for PE is quite different.

[ProfessorBranestawm]

I wouldn't be happy with this happening on a regular basis! Giving the benefit of the doubt I suppose she is just starting strict, lots of teachers seem to start really strict in September.

I really don't like the idea of missing exercise being a punishment, partly because it makes the work they do instead seem like a punishment as well. Not a great way to encourage a love of academic stuff, IMHO.

[HexBramble]

Not sure I appreciate my year 4 DD being branded as an arsehole

Yes, I suppose it very much depends on what they are doing, but a class that are poor listeners could easily do simple exercise drills around a yard until they 'earn' the next task. It sounds to me that the teacher isn't handling her class too well - to admit that she doesn't want to teach them isn't going to improve the dynamic at all.

I've also worked with teachers who hated PE and would look for any reason to not do the session...

[xmb53]

As a Cub Scout leader, where attendance on both sides is voluntary, yes I have once or twice (in about 8 years) said to my pack that if they mess around as they are doing then I might not be coming back next week - and that if they look around the hall, can they see anyone at all who will take my place (there are Young leaders and at least one other parent there for my safeguarding). Starts to put things in perspective for them.....
Now, if a Cub then reports that to their parent, would it get a bit mangled in the message?

[Mycraneisfixed]

As pp said, PE is part of the National Curriculum and must take place twice a week in some form or another.
It's not just the exercise aspect, they learn plenty of other things during PE. Teamwork, dexterity skills, coordination, fairness, how to lose without having a tantrum.
As we head towards Christmas you can be assured that it'll be PE lessons that are missed when the kids are rehearsing for the Christmas concert

[jennielou75]

Could the comment about not wanting to come to school have been part of a longer conversation about classroom behaviour? When I have had a day of feeling like I have spent most of it nagging or shouting I have sat the children down and talked through why I have had to get cross.
I have also talked about how I don't enjoy shouting as they don't enjoy being shouted at, or having to spend the day nagging as they don't enjoy being nagged, and how we all need to enjoy school. I feel they begin to see me as part of the class and not just the boss and behaviour improves as a result. How they would report this to their parents I am not sure.

[user1470269632]

Good grief, as an ex teacher myself, this teacher sounds like a little Hitler and unkind to boot! Threatening children that she's not going to come to school herself is hardly a good role model. I can't understand her rule of not talking at lunch time too. Surely this is when children learn how to be sociable at the table. I used to sit with mine at the same table and we'd discuss anything but school. What they'd done at the weekend, what was their favourite TV programme, what was their favourite game, etc. It taught them how to converse at the table whilst learning table manners I.e. not to talk with a mouth full of food! .
I had this problem when dealing with one of my DC's teachers over water bottles at school and then they were banned because the juice inside made everything sticky. I suggested that rather rather than a total denial the juice be replaced with water. Healthier than sugared or aspartame type drinks. If the little darling still messed around with the water bottle, then take it away for a day. The next time they misbehaved take it away for two, etc. They'd soon get the idea that messing around with their water bottles wasn't a good idea, when they could see all their peers drinking!
My philosophy when dealing with a child who misbehaves it to make my punishment affect that child only, but also leave enough scope to step up the punishment if their behaviour doesn't improve. There's nothing like a bit of peer pressure or resentment after all, IMHO. Also by doing this, it gives me more scope to step up the punishment slowly. It definitely works. No two ways about it.
I definitely wouldn't make empty threats saying I couldn't be bothered to come into school the meat day myself! That's so wrong on so many levels.
I'd speak to the head teacher, myself. I did, in my situation, and this was obviously passed into the teacher. Well within a week the teacher admitted that my stance worked and my child was a lot happier because the teacher was no longer punishing the entire class!
The teacher herself had gone from school to university, then back to the school environment. I think as a mum myself, but also worked outside in the banking system made me more objective, mature and how to get children to comply with my rules and also so as to not damage equipment in the class. It was quite a wake up call for this teacher, because she then asked me how I'd deal with a variety of situations she was struggling to handle. We had a very amicable chat, with me treading on eggshells ;-) and her class control improved immensely. Her stress levels went down considerably too, to boot!

[Longlost10]

I used to sit with mine at the same table and we'd discuss anything but school. What they'd done at the weekend, what was their favourite TV programme, what was their favourite game, etc this must have been a long time ago, user, you'd be disciplined for breaking child protection guidelines if you tried this now.

I definitely wouldn't make empty threats saying I couldn't be bothered to come into school the meat day myself you don't know that she did, and if she did, you don't know that it was an empty threat. Teachers are walking out on a pretty epic scale, we had one this week, 2 weeks 2 days into her career. She had been threatening to for over a week, then she did. Personally, I think she was quite right to, she is highly qualified and experienced in other fields, and why should she put up with the daily round of personal abuse and rudeness she was getting? She had absolutely no reason to. You don't know how this teacher is being treated, but you can see from this thread how little support and back up she is likely to be getting from parents.

[Longlost10]

It definitely works you mean it worked for you, in your particular situation, at that particular time. Ridiculous to come onto a internet forum announcing you have the answer to making children behave in schools. You think every teacher I've seen this week has simply been going about it in the wrong way then, do you? you would last about 10 minutes trying that approach in the school I was in on Friday.

[Longlost10]

poor, poor teacher, I feel so sorry for her. She was obviously instructed to butter you up and keep you sweet, and felt that humiliating herself in front of you was the easiest way to tick that box. I can just imagine how much she was grinding her teeth behind the diplomatic smile.