Does this sound ok? What happened at school today

[DramaKing]

I've namechanged incase the teacher is a mumsnetter.

My child is in year 4.

Child told me today that the whole class missed PE because some children were talking. They apparently all got changed, got outside then the teacher told them all she'd had enough and to get back instead and change back into uniform.

The teacher next told them "I don't want to come to school tomorrow with you lot but I've got to".

The whole class apparently keep missing 10 minutes of their lunch because a few are talking.

That isn't the first time they've missed PE and they've only been back a couple of weeks.

It all sounds very negative and dc told me the teacher hates them all.

I'm a bit annoyed my child is missing out on exercise and PE because of a few children. Never had this problem in any other class.

Am I wrong? What does the mumsnet jury think?

[Evergreen17]

Drama yes I am en educator but I dont work in formal education as it is way to stressful for teachers atm
I work with schools though
With the traffic light, sometimes you get to red then what?
Petty I think that is an extreme! Someone shouting at kids and calling them names should not be teaching or allowed to be a parent.
Cherub speak to the children in which way exactly? I have heard parents MANY times say things like: well I dont want to wake up early either but I have to.
Some professions are stressful sure. This being one. Lets be a bit understanding here, she used a behaviour management strategy she thought valid and she has training and expertise.
At work I am actually entitled and encouraged to finish a session if the class is misbehaving badly so there.

[Evergreen17]

Poptart of course you can! I would be given a big talk from managers if I let a session continue despite bad behaviour, particularly on a session outdoors or where potentially children can hurt themselves.
Teachers can't cancel lets just let the kids do whatever the heck they want then

[Cherubneddy1]

Evergreen, oh yes, as a parent I have said much worse to my own children! But there's the difference; I'm a parent, not a trained professional. HUGE difference! There's no way I could get away with telling the people I work with that I didn't want to be there, they would, quite rightly, complain! For a child to be feeling that their teacher didn't like them speaks volumes doesn't it?! She's given them good reason to feel like that. FFS.

[jamdonut]

If the kids in that class really like PE, then it is a suitable consequence for them to miss it if their behaviour is less than ideal. Obviously the teacher can't continually do it because it is part of NationalCurriculum, but sometimes it takes such decisions for the misbehavers to realise the teacher means business. Really, it's all very well you all sitting in judgement of teacher's decisions but I would love to see some of you have to deal the situation. She must be REALLY at the end of her tether to have made those comments.

[JacquesHammer]

Lazy lazy method of discipline IMO.

I wouldn't be happy.

[DramaKing]

Evergreen they get a lunchtime detention if they go onto red, or they can lose golden time. They can also be sent to the headteacher. Perhaps the teacher felt too many children were being disruptive I don't know.

I definitely don't think the children should be allowed to do what they like.

Again with her saying she didn't want to go to work, I suppose it depends exactly how it was said on what context. I don't really think it should be said.

All I know is dc is feeling very glum about year 4 having being nothing but positive about previous teachers.

Perhaps the expectations are higher in year 4, perhaps they've all come back from holidays being awful pupils.

[Evergreen17]

What Jam Said
Jacques can you suggest an alternative behaviour management technique here? Since you seem to know enough to disapprove of this one

[Evergreen17]

Cherub exactly. You are a parent and she is a trained professional. So maybe she knows better right

[Evergreen17]

And Jacques we call it behaviour management. Discipline is a very negative approach btw, I dont discipline my students, I manage their behaviour, actually I help them manage their own**

[SE13Mummy]

I'm sorry your child missed PE today, it's annoying when that sort of thing happens. Speaking as a teacher who has regularly been given the tricky Y4 class, I will do all I can to avoid missing PE but at the start of the school year, it's often necessary to be incredibly firm about expectations. If it's an outside lesson and you will be competing with traffic, the Early Years children playing outside and a handful of aeroplanes to be heard, it's sometimes necessary to demonstrate to the children that if they choose to make it even harder for you to be heard (without damaging your voice) then they are choosing to have the lesson shortened in one way or another. Whenever possible, I continue the lesson with the children who are listening and get the non-listeners to sit out until they let me know that they're ready to join in. If the group of non-listeners is a large one, or particularly disruptive one, it doesn't always work to have them sitting out at the same time and in the absence of a TA to take the offending group in, it's occasionally necessary to take the whole class in. If it's indoor PE and a group within the class are persistently talking over me, I'd get them to sit out as before and although I wouldn't cancel the whole PE lesson due to too many talkative children, I would explain that the gym apparatus/bench ball/whatever was on the cards, would only be available to those children who demonstrated that they could follow instructions.

A couple of firm sessions at the start of the year tends to be all the children need. More often than not, it's possible to deal with the chatters in a way that doesn't result in missed PE for the whole class. Likewise, playtime; I've always sent those who are ready to go to play outside and delayed those who aren't.

Don't go in guns blazing but mention to the teacher that you are worried about the late start to lunch/missing PE and see what she says.

[heavenlypink]

Boot camp session for a class I know of due to bad behaviour during a PE lesson

[S1lentAllTheseYears]

Even at that age, I would have been delighted to miss PE! It was my most hated lesson of all time so missing it would not have been a punishment for me and I would happily have done extra maths in the warm instead!

I was a mostly well behaved child so it wouldn't have been me talking but I would have secretly thanked whoever it was!

As a rule, I don't like whole class punishments though.

[DandelionAndBedrock]

I had year 2 last year and I sometimes had to take them out for extra break because their behaviour was so hideous - we all needed to get out of the room. I just pounced on the 30 seconds they were doing the right thing and used it as a reward.

Everyone does PE in my class, until they talk. Then they sit out and watch for a few minutes to reflect on how unsafe they were being. Then they join back in. If they talk again, they are taken out and go back to class with the TA. Doesn't have to happen often - year fours would cotton on pretty quickly.
I would be more concerned about telling them she doesn't want to teach them.

[JacquesHammer]

Well yes. At my DD's school the ones who misbehave get the punishment, the ones who don't get PE as normal.

Why on earth should well behaved children miss out?

[Cherubneddy1]

Dandelionandbedrock, that's exactly how I feel too. I wouldn't have a problem with them having to miss PE ( unless it happened frequently), but I think it's appalling that a so-called "professional" tells the children she doesn't want to be there. As other teachers seem to see this as acceptable behaviour, there are clearly different lower standards of behaviour that are deemed acceptable for some teachers

Having said that, my DC's teachers are excellent and would not dream of making such appalling comments to the children.

[JacquesHammer]

And indeed it works far better - certainly pushes home the consequences of poor behaviour seeing classmates heading off to do the fun things.

[RaeAm]

After a decade in education I'd take a pretty big wager that the teacher's comment was in response to " I'm telling my mum I don't want to come to school tomorrow". Oddly they're not such saints when they're away from their parents :)

[user1474635742]

I'm just wondering if the teacher would do this if an ofsted inspector was in the school.......

[silvergirl267]

As a former primary school teacher who taught Year 3 for 7 years and year 4 for 2, I hated September, it seemed to take that whole month to get the children back into "school" mode.

Give the teacher a little bit of a leeway for another few weeks, if it's continuing then maybe a quiet, friendly word with her might be in order.

Please don't go in all guns blazing, teaching is a very stressful job. One of the reasons why I am glad I don't teach any more.

[simiisme]

I'd be watching very closely to see if there is any more of this sort of behaviour from he teacher, especially the comment.
Whole class punishments are not fair and not effective. And yes, I'm a teacher, at a secondary school. The comment was out of order.
My school has some challenging students; one of the few non-grammar schools in an area drowning in them.
Yes, teaching is beyond exhausting, but there are a few very negative and bitter sounding teachers on this thread! Time for them to look for a new job?
And, before you ask, no, I'm not an overenthusiastic, unrealistic NQT, rather long in the tooth at almost 50 years old.

[AGenie]

The teacher does sounds as thought she is struggling. I used to love having PE cancelled. I didn't like it and far preferred maths.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

I have stopped lessons and I have moved lessons (during the lesson time) due to the behaviour of some children, I have had the backing of the school when I have done this.

But I teach secondary and a subject where if one child decides to be stupid or violent then lots of children could get hurt.

[phlebasconsidered]

Well, I'd take your child's reporting of her comments with a pinch of salt. It's often the case that children misreport, make up, or just don't get the tone of comments.

It is massively important to get the kids listening to you before PE. I have, particularly at the start of years, often "cancelled" PE due to noise getting changed and silliness once outside. I simply cannot have my neighbouring class disrupted twice a week twice in an hour if they can't get changed nicely. I'm also not willing to have 32 kids with rugby balls/ playing matches/ hockey sticks unless they are perfectly behaved. I'm not mean. I'm teaching them that behaviour in sport is important and that the whole team has to listen. I am 100% sure that parents would prefer my grumpy denial of PE until they are in shape ( usually only takes a few session) to black eyes or worse.

I ask you to.consider this: would you want year 4 students flinging themselves over a horse if you thought they were not all listening to the safety rules first, then waiting quietly for the signal to go? It's terrifying for the teacher and it's often the lesson where you are on your own without a TA. I can't have 6 5 ish a side games going on unless those kids are DRILLED.

[Ditsy4]

I stopped a lesson today for the same reason sometimes children have to learn that you will follow through unlike many of the parents.

No one has taken into account where the PE lesson was to be held. If it was outdoors where is it in relation to school? Some schools fields are quite a way from other staff so if children were not listening then it would be unsafe.
Try walking in her shoes.
Her comment maybe in relation to a child not wanting to do something. Perhaps she was pointing out to a child that she has to do things she doesn't always want to do. Secondhand info from a child isn't always the whole truth. We 've only had two PE lessons so unless you are in Scotland there might be a reason for it. Lots of ours hadn't brought PE kit.
Whole class punishment works quite well actually. It is peer pressure. As long as it doesn't happen often.
Give the teacher a chance to get to know her pupils. It very hard to pick out the culprits sometimes.