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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not move out of rented house until I'm ready?

378 replies

longtermsinglemummy · 13/09/2016 11:41

I have rented my current home for 5 years. I've looked after it as if it were my own and we've been really happy here. The landlord lives abroad.

In April I had a phone call from the letting agents asking for the property to be valued as the landlord was looking into selling it (huge shock as you can imagine). To cut a long story short he did decide to sell the property and we were given 2 months notice on 21st May, which was then extended by another 2 months expiring on September 22nd as it was still unsold.

In this period I have complied with their wishes. I have had people view the property (which was galling as it feels like our home), and then a mortgage valuation and survey once the house was sold (they only told us it was sold at the end of July). Since then we have looked at so many houses both online and in person but there were none that we really liked or that were suitable for us. I also have legacy credit issues which have stood in our way.

I have finally found a house that we like, and they will have us Grin

But am I being unreasonable in saying we are not able to move out by the 22nd? This date would put so much pressure on me as I couldn't get my head around moving until we had somewhere to move to, so still have loads to do. There is no chain, the buyers aren't selling their house and my landlord is abroad and has a home there. I also have to get my daughter back to university which wipes out one weekend. My ideal scenario would be to vacate the house on Monday October 10th, 2.5 weeks after my notice runs out.

I just feel that I have been a really good tenant over the years, I have been compliant during this horrible shitty period when I could have been obstructive had I chosen to be. The letting agents are saying it has to be Sept 22nd and it's not possible to go past this date, contracts have been drawn up etc.

Surely another 2.5 weeks couldn't be that much of an issue?

OP posts:
chilipepper20 · 13/09/2016 22:01

I am thankfully out of renting now and no longer a landlord but I feel strongly about the lack of protection for tenants.

there is no doubt there is a lack of protection from tenants.

But from what I gather, there is a substantial amount of protection for bad tenants and not enough for the usual good ones.

chilipepper20 · 13/09/2016 22:01

*for tenants.

Myredrose · 13/09/2016 22:03

The tenant can still be paying rent up to the court order, why the assumption that they aren't?
It's to protect tenants from being made homeless, same as the DPS was introduced, because too many landlords were keeping deposits.

GingerbreadCake · 13/09/2016 22:05

What's all this chat about being a me homeless and lack of protection for tenants?

The OP has somewhere else to go she just can't be arsed to pack. Four months wasn't enough notice.

Unicornsarelovely · 13/09/2016 22:07

There is a legal requirement to leave on the date the notice is confirmed by the court, not on a date specified by the notice.

If you stop making car payments, the car hire company can repossess the car, once they have obtained a court order allowing them to do so. If they repossess without the order, they could potentially be charged with theft.

It is the court order which has the legal effect in both cases.

Myredrose · 13/09/2016 22:07

All this chat is about tenants in general, you know, chat meanders like that.

Unicornsarelovely · 13/09/2016 22:11

I don't agree with what the op considered doing, and do think she should move.

However, I do think that landlords should know what their responsibilities are so that when they do have to deal with a really difficult tenant they know to follow the law rather than potentially risking the sale of the property for the sake of a couple of months rent.

purpleshortcake · 13/09/2016 22:16

Can't believe the posters encouraging you to dig your heels in and wait for a Section. 21 to be served...in other words break your contract and get evicted! Your landlord has been fair to you over notice and presumably you have been happy with the landlord during your tenancy.

Why do some people seem to think it's ok to completely shaft a fair landlord in this way, especially when its not a homelessness issue...if their moral code thinks this is ok then they're probably the same people who wonder why later down the line they can't get decent references when they want to rent again. I have even heard of some councils encouraging tenants to do this..and then they wonder why there is a shortage of decent landlords offering properties at reasonable rents!

Anyway OP sounds like you've made a good decision by getting cracking with packing. Good luck with the move

katemess12 · 13/09/2016 22:17

The number of people on here who think the OP has more right to the house than the person who actually OWNS it is baffling.

The OP was told in April that they were considering selling it. Most people would've started looking for a new place then.

chilipepper20 · 13/09/2016 22:59

If you stop making car payments, the car hire company can repossess the car, once they have obtained a court order allowing them to do so. If they repossess without the order, they could potentially be charged with theft.

that doesn't answer my question. I asked, you don't have a legal requirement to make a car payment until there is a court, and not before?

I don't know, I am not a lawyer. But it seems to me the court order enforces the legal requirement which is already there.

Justaboy · 13/09/2016 23:52

Myredrose

Yes the "reasonable" man or woman on the clapham bendybuss;-)

Well before the AST came into being there was a dire shortage of private lettings as landlords were tied up very long term and had a massive problem getting tenants out so not that may were into lettings. Then the AST act came along and remedied that situation quite a bit.

So even the specimen government written one which has the same viewings clause you'd ignore and possibly take a landlord to court for using the clause or was there a bit more to it in your instance then?.

The showing of prospective tenants may not have been any benefit to you but you signed that contract with that clause in place then?

Mistigri · 14/09/2016 01:12

so, what you are saying is that in our system, the standard is NOT to trust tenants to follow the law. That if you are an LL selling a home, and you follow all the rules and notice periods, you should plan to leave the place empty for multiple weeks simply because tenants can't be trusted to leave when they are legally supposed to.

No, what I'm saying is that the risk works both ways. Tenants who refuse to move at the end of their notice period put their references at risk. But landlords who want to wring every last penny of rent out of a property before selling it also take a risk: that the property will not be vacant on the desired date.

The point being that there is a risk on both sides, that can be mitigated if the individual so desires. I'm not advocating tenants overstaying their notice period (especially in the OP's case: she has a new home to move to), simply pointing out that landlords have a choice here too.

Mistigri · 14/09/2016 01:15

Most people would've started looking for a new place then.

The number of people who don't bother to read the OP before responding is baffling.

charlestrenet · 14/09/2016 01:45

Notice is just notice - it's giving information as to your intent. There is no contractual breach in ignoring that notice. The tenant's subsidiary legal interest in the land is not terminated by a landlord notifying them of their intention - that happens in court. Not sure what the relevance of asking about hire cars is - it's a completely different legal set up.

FairyDogMother11 · 14/09/2016 02:12

When my partner and I purchased our house, we were first time buyers and ready to move at the drop of a hat. First of all, we had to wait for the owners to find a place to live, which took a few weeks. Then, once we'd been assured we'd complete by mid March (so I took a couple of weeks off at the end of March so I could get the house sorted) it then transpires there's an early repayment charge on their current mortgage. So we can't move in till the beginning of April...it's not quite the same as your situation but we were living out of boxes, took time off based around our initial expected move date, but because they took their time it made things difficult for us. I ended up back at work two hours after we got the keys, we'd been waiting since 10am - again, they were still in the house when we got there to move stuff in. I'd just had ten days of my holiday wasted as well and was stressed as soon as I went back to work. Just because it suits you, doesn't mean it suits them. I understand it is what you've come to call your home, but you've got to understand that it isn't any more and you've had time to get ready to move. I started packing up my things basically as soon as I was told we had our offer accepted so in your situation I'd have started packing some things as soon as your notice was given.

GoldFishFingerz · 14/09/2016 03:04

2 months is enough to pack up

Mummyoflittledragon · 14/09/2016 05:38

unicorn savvy tenants change the locks. Tenants sign that they will not change the locks in the AST. This is a breach of contract. Savvy landlords are then entitled to give notice.

SlimCheesy2 · 14/09/2016 07:02

Fair landlords inform the tenant they are thinking of selling the house.

Fair landlords then inform the tenant the house is up for sale.

Fair landlords then give the tenant notice.

Fair landlords then empathise with a tenant who is not yet ready for personal reasons and give them extra notice.

Fair landlords then give a good reference for their tenant so the tenant despite their credit rating get a new house quickly.

Fair landlords are entitled to expect their tenant will then behave correctly, and fairly and indeed sensibly.

I am sure the OP has now gotten her head around it and is packing hard. That would be only fair given the circumstances.

ncayley115 · 14/09/2016 07:13

YABU. It's not your house. We lost a buyer because out tenants wouldn't get out and it cost us £3k to evict them. Then the property sat empty for 3 months with us paying a mortgage before we got another buyer. If you don't leave now then you're not going to get a reference from your landlord.

GoldFishFingerz · 14/09/2016 07:18

So pop your stuff in boxes. Put it in storage. Go stay with s friend/family member for two weeks. Or take a 2 week holiday somewhere while everything's packed away.

LaurieMarlow · 14/09/2016 07:37

We're trying to buy right now and we're living out of boxes with parents in law. It's not a great situation and if a tenant like yourself held stuff up or jeopardised a potential sale because they couldn't get out with four months notice I'd be mightily pissed.

There are a lot more people involved than you and they all have their own pressures. You need to respect that and keep to the agreement made. Your landlord has been more than accommodating.

Gabilan · 14/09/2016 07:44

Then the property sat empty for 3 months with us paying a mortgage before we got another buyer

But this is the risk you take if you decide to sell a property you rent out. You might end up Shock paying your own mortgage instead of the tenant paying your mortgage.

I pay enough in rent to cover a mortgage but I can't save enough for a house deposit. So it's not lack of work on my part or lack of earning that prevents me buying. It's the fact that what I can scrape together goes on funding someone else's nest egg.

To those people who have glibly said the OP could just buy the house, to do this you need:

A long-term job contract
A good salary
Savings, and preferably:

A partner with the same
An inheritance/ help from parents
The luck to get on the housing ladder before the prices soared

Not everybody manages this, despite working hard, training for a good job etc. etc. Some of the glib smugness on this thread from home owners is pretty hard to stomach.

PitchFork · 14/09/2016 07:47

Tenants sign that they will not change the locks in the AST. This is a breach of contract. Savvy landlords are then entitled to give notice.

LL wouldn't know the locks had been changed if they were reasonable and not breaking the law!

btw, we always changed locks when renting. for once, the contents insurance often is invalid if a third party holds a key.
for inspections one of us was always present, so keys were not an issue at all.

Waltermittythesequel · 14/09/2016 08:04

Some of the glib smugness on this thread from home owners is pretty hard to stomach.

Equally some of the entitlement from renters is breathtaking.

All this "I'm paying their mortgage" nonsense.

Tenants aren't doing the homeowners a favour. They're paying to live somewhere.

And if the owners choose to sell/knock it down/turn it into a cat sanctuary that is their perogative and the tenants need to leave because they don't own it.

I genuinely don't understand why people would drag their heels. I'd be mortified!

var12 · 14/09/2016 08:12

When is the LL due to exchange contracts on the sale? Is it the 22nd?
When is he due to complete the sale?

TBH I think it will be incredibly stressful if you don't go on the 22nd. Or even before as you've got the cleaning and repairing to do, which will cost you a fortune if you leave to the letting agents to organise after you've left.

It is really expensive but if I were you, I'd get professional movers in to pack you up if you don't have enough time to do it yourself.