To think most of the people bemoaning grammar schools are hypocrites

[pleasemothermay1]

That's just it's really I don't mind people who have the courage of there conviction but I have no trux with champagne socialists

Like jc or Diane Abbott or Tristan hunt

Who's children all went or will be going to grammar or private

Even bloody James o Brian moaning about grammars when he rountinly says he wouldn't rule out private for his girls 😕

[IonaNE]

YANBU. Grammar schools are about the only way now to save clever kids (of any background) who actually want to learn from the zoo that many comprehensives are. If you don't believe this, come and tour secondary schools in the North. Former teacher here.

[sandyholme]

'Were going to Zoo tomorrow , you can come too , how about you we can stay all day '

[noblegiraffe]

Grammar schools are about the only way now to save clever kids (of any background) who actually want to learn from the zoo that many comprehensives

We know that the best performing schools in the country for kids of all backgrounds are not to be found in grammar counties, but in London. London schools used to be terrible, hence the London Challenge which has seen a massive turnaround. We should be looking to what worked there (more investment for a start), not trying to patch up a system which has been shown to systematically fail the poorest, while not particularly improving outcomes for the rest.

[Kaija]

Yes you are being unreasonable. If you live in an area where your only options are grammar or (effectively) secondary modern, you go for the grammar. Doesn't mean you don't deplore having to make the decision in the first place.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

YANBU OP. I was at the funeral of an old school friend's mum a few weeks ago. At the wake another friend's mum was going on about how "unfair" the GS system is. Her DDs all went to GS, but her prescious golden boy didn't pass the 11+.

And she is still going on about it nearly 30 years later! At the time he was happy to go to the same school as all his friends and is minted now. She never got over it.

[travellinglighter]

The big problem is that grammar schools aren't what they used to be. They aren't an escape for bright kids from impoverished backgrounds anymore because middle class parents elbow their way in and exclude them.

Their is a way to get a better education for all and that is to fund the current school system properly, do away with ideologically based educational and go with evidence based systems instead.

Theresa May might struggle to get it through the commons anyway. There may be enough Tory mp's who object to them enough to block them.

[noblegiraffe]

It depends on whether the SNP vote on it or abstain. If they abstain it will most likely go through.

[Floisme]

I hadn't thought about the SNP tactics but I still can't see May risking this with such a tiny majority. I think she's brought it up as a diversion because it's a populist topic that she thinks will go down well with the grassroots

[burdog]

I am against grammar schools. I think it is damaging to subject children to that pressure at such a young age. I think it is damaging for children to learn they are a failure if they do not pass the entrance test.

That said, my parents were the type of working class kids the grammar school system benefitted (bright, relatively stable home life, nothing like dyslexia or other challenges that impeded their ability to cope with that style of schooling) and it helped them achieve their aspirations, meaning they continued their education and ended up in well-paid careers so I feel conflicted.

I am sick of education up to the age of 18 being treated as the be-all and end-all. Our children will be working to at least 68 (and the pension age will probably be increased again). We need a greater focus on lifelong learning.

[clarrylove]

A timely discussion for us as my son sat the 11plus on Saturday. We are in Glos and have the Grammar system. I think my son is able but not particularly gifted however I will do my best to get him in the Grammar. Why? Because being clever is cool at this school -the opposite applies at the local comp (where chairs are thrown in the classroom most days.....).

[noblegiraffe]

My parents both worked their way up to well paid careers without having gone to grammar school. It was an era of social mobility in general and people who point to family success 'because of the grammar system' need to consider that that success could well have been achieved without it.

[noblegiraffe]

I still can't see May risking this with such a tiny majority.

It's her first policy announcement, she is unlikely to back down any time soon.

[SouthWestmom]

I'm 44 and had no choice at 13, went to grammar. Not sure how that make me a hypocrite?

We live in an are where there is selection so the choice is grammar or secondary modern, no true comprehensive. So hypocritically I've made the right choice for each of my children out of what's on offer.

I am horrified at the expansion of grammars and I sincerely hope it doesn't happen. There is fuck all hope of a return to some nostalgic never land where little poor kids were given a bright future in grammars and rescued from a terrible future up chimneys or something.

It will mean a huger class divide, more areas where you have middle class tutored kids at one school and council/HA estates where the kids go somewhere else.

[Offline]

Of people be-moaning grammar schools:
Ones with kids in grammars are hypocrites
Ones without kids in grammars are jealous
Ones happy with comps have bought into wealthy catchments (see category 1)

No evidenced based views at all.

HTH your own reasoned PoV, OP.

[OhGodWhatTheHellNow]

I am sure that everyone who supports grammars assumes their child will get in - how many would shout about how great it was if they knew their DC would probably fail the test? The comprehensive system isn't broken and grammar is the antitheses of social cohesion.

As for JC and his bloody principles, just another stubborn arsehole spitting the dummy because he didn't get his own way. Why shouldn't his children's mother have a say on their schooling? My Way or the Highway, eh JC?

[bearleftmonkeyright]

I'm not sure hypocrisy can be an issue when it comes to your childrens education. You make the best choice you can for them. Many people support the principal of the NHS but will pay for private medical treatment because they can. I don't see that as hypocrisy as such. I am very much against the introduction of grammar schools but want my children to get the best possible education. I see that as two separate issues. I truly believe in a comprehensive education system. But you have to do your best for your children. This is politics of divide and conquer and is in essence a war on class. All children deserve the same chance to be the best they can be. An 11+ and written off if you fail is not the way to achieve that.

[MerylPeril]

Grammar schools were necessary - my dad got into one in the 1940s and helped him move out of the poverty he was living in and get to university.

Now we expect all schools to be a good standard, it's an excuse for them not to be.

[goodbyestranger]

Grammars get no funding beyond that which all schools in the same area do.

I can't see why having attended a grammar or independent makes one a hypocrite for opposing them at all. It would have been a parental choice, not the person themselves. That argument makes no sense. Opposing them and sending children there is different, and thoroughly hypocritical, even if the grammar happens to be the nearest school.

[cexuwaleozbu]

It is not hypocritical to campaign for a fair system which gives an excellent education to everyone not just a few, and simultaneously work with the system that we have now. If there was a fair system available then obviously these politicians would be happy to use it but until that day comes they are working with the same flawed system as the rest of us and have every right to choose the option that they believe will result in the best outcome for their child.

I don't believe that a grammar system is a good idea because it intrinsically requires the majority of children to be defined as "not academic" at an early age and put on a fast track to nowhere. That said, if my own child has to go to either a grammar school or a school with very few academically-minded children due to the nearby grammars and selective schools bagging them all, then I will do everything I can to get my child a place at the grammar.

The grammar might not be the right environment either but could be the best of a bad set of choices in the absence of an excellent comprehensive with grammar-style setting for each subject so that each child can shine in their areas of talent and get support in their areas of weakness.

It is not remotely hypocritical to make that choice and simultaneously fight for future generations not having to make that choice.

[Natsku]

I agree its hypocritical of labour politicians to send their children to grammar schools if they are against them but I can't begrudge average parents from having to choose the lesser evil for their children.

I'm against all grammar, private and religious schools and think they should be abolished and all schools should be good enough for all children but doesn't seem like its ever going to be like that in the UK.

[Bobochic]

Many people who are against selective education do not have DC who fulfill the selection criteria and who are therefore excluded from it. I have some sympathy with their hurt egos. But they would be better off fighting their own DC's corner than trying to put an end to educational selection/advantage,Mohicans is an entirely lost cause.

[Bobochic]

Mohicans?!

which

[Dontyoulovecalpol]

I think this argument is really simplistic.

This is your child's education. Of course you are going to do what's best for them and send them to the best school for them. Refusing to do that to make a (useless) point about the education system would actually be cruel and poor parenting.

Yet people are constantly challenged to agree with selective education or not use it. It's actually quite immature and shows a real lack of appreciation for the complexity of the issue

[bibbitybobbityyhat]

Yabu. And this is the very definition of a goady thread. And do we seriously need another thread about grammar schools? I don't see how they will be able to force through this stupid change without a mandate for it. Am hoping it will die a death like the every school to become an academy proposal.