To be utterly fucked off with this incompetence?

[VelvetSpoon]

Previous threadhere for background.

In brief, I have a water leak. So big that it cascades down what's left of my driveway (which has had 4 big holes dug in it), over the pavement and runs like a stream down the road. Apart from the holes, it's been like this for about 5 months.

I was told recently by Thames Water that if I dug a hole in my kitchen floor they would repair the leak. It's a solid concrete floor so not just lifting floor boards etc.

Today was meant to be a site visit to a) confirm that there was no alternative but to dig a hole and b) to mark out where the hole was. Except Thames don't know where the leak is, and have no way of finding out.

So where the fuck was the hole meant to be? No answer.

My insurers also don't know where the leak is. Chap from loss adjusters said it would require tracing to work out where it is but that I 'probably' haven't got cover for that.

So the water co want me to dig a hole except they don't know where the leak is or where to dig. My insurers will pay for the damage done by digging the hole, but won't dig it until they know where the leak is, the detection of which I'm not covered for.

Is this not utter madness? What on earth am I meant to do??!

I have to say, I'm an intelligent and articulate person and I am struggling against this tide of bullshit, fuck knows how other people would manage. I had to ask about alternatives to the digging, because pillock from my insurers didn't realise that was part of his brief...

Sorry it's not on an EXTERNAL wall.

The issue is not really who is or isn't able to do what, it's the constant lack of information, misinformation and outright lies I've been fed for the last few months.

My insurers will pay for the damage done by digging the hole, but won't dig it until they know where the leak is, the detection of which I'm not covered for.

My advice would be make the hole sufficiently large enough to take in all leak possibilities.

Have you been to a solicitor or the CAB to find out what the legal situation is with regard to who has to pay for it? From what you have said I don't think you should have to pay for it. Sorry this has happened to you, it must be very worrying. Hope the situation is sorted soon.

The situation is complicated further by the fact it is a shared supply.

If it is a shared supply, you are all responsible for the costs.

For good free advice of what to do try ukplumbersforum,co,uk

No swearing allowed on there so be polite and your first post will be held back until a mod scans it.

Opps
meant .co.uk

All Thames can say is the leak is under my kitchen, which is 12ft x 21ft. Not sure how practical it would be to excavate foot thick concrete in the entire room, not to mention where we would live whilst that was happening.

It's interesting that Thames should be able to do the thermal imagining themselves, especially since they've effectively told me the opposite!

As to the shared supply, my insurers and TW have both been pretty clear I/ my insurers are only liable for the pipework from the mains in the street to my house. Anything branching off from the 'join' is that house/ their insurers' responsibility, albeit that it's under my house.

I've not sought any advice yet, I'm a lawyer myself although in an entirely different field.

Therewas a change in the law a few years ago which made the water companies liable for problems outside the boundary, but the householder responsible for problems within the boundary. So, while it saves the water companies huuuuuuge amounts, it's costing the rest of us. There's no doubt that it is actually op's problem, whether historically the wrong pipes were used or the builders shouldn't put concrete over thema they can't take the pressure or whatever has happened to cause the leak. It's outside the area of responsibility of the water company. (Apparently the profits they make aren't significant enough to warrant them paying for repairs.)

Anyway, op, I'm so sorry it's happened and it's a bloody nightmare. You're lucky the water company are being as helpful as they are. How about contacting a consumer group - there's bound to be one which covers this sort of thing.

Personally I would stump up for a Leak Detection company to come out and locate the leak. We did for an internal water escape and it saved us a lot of faff and damage locating the actual point.

Contact your insurance directly to see if they cover you? We are with LV and just had to pay the excess.

Also double check that you haven't got pipes covered under insurance such as HomeServe?

Do you by anychance have a British Gas homeserve agreement? I had a pipes and electricity bolt on to that that would have covered that?

Sadly we have experienced similar with Scottish Water and it was an utter nightmare. Top floor flat in a 3 storey block and the water just stops flowing beyond a trickle. These are Edinburgh New Town flats which originally had basement flats accessed from steps down from the pavement, with a separate set of steps bridging over the gap and leading to the entrance to the block of flats. The basement flats also had under pavement storage areas. So the street originally went road - pavement - fence - large gap with patios below - building walls.

The gaps have however been built over by ground floor shops and pubs so they no longer exists. Because they once existed Scottish water wouldn't look any further than the road and said our responsibility started at the busy city centre pavement. Council wouldn't let us dig it up. Scottish water suggested we lifted the 150 year old solid stone, listed, wedged between two buildings, entrance stairs in the hope the leak was maybe there. Shop and pub not interested because the leak wasn't reducing their pressure enough to be problematic. Nobody could or would help.

I eventually tracked down old maps and from that realised that the pub had extended over the gap, then dug out plans and worked out where in their basement the bricked up under pavement storage entrance might have been and so we eventually got in that way but this took weeks and weeks and nobody could help. The whole of central Edinburgh is like this layout wise but they had no suggestions at All.

Sorry for the rant OP but you have my sympathies because it was a stressful nightmare.

or your boiler maintainer?

furryminkmoo

Snap - Great minds etc.

I don't have any additional insurance other than my buildings and contents. I will speak to my own insurers tomorrow, however I will already be paying £350 excess for the damage to my house/ driveway, I'm reluctant to start paying for things that either should be covered by TW or my insurers.

As for TW, I can assure you that they've been anything but helpful. I've had this leak since April. Because of the shared supply it is v difficult for my insurers to do any of the work - they were all set back in July to reroute the pipework but had to stop because of the shared supply issue. Now it's Thames saying it can't be rerouted and because of the shared supply it seems as though they get the deciding vote.

Someone previously (sorry, my phone tends to lose posts if I scroll back) said the LA bloke shouldn't have been commenting on what my insurance may or may not cover, completely agree. At no point did I feel hs was on my side or know why he was even there but comments like 'that won't be covered' or his other corker (when I said that if my kitchen floor comes up the whole thing will have to be replaced, not just because of the fact they won't match the tiles, but because I have underfloor heating, and if they damage the cupboards I'll want those replaced too 'oh, you'll find it only covers the first £500 so you won't get any of that back'

Thames Water is such a nightmare. I worked in a school and one day they arbitrarily changed our account number and closed our old account. It was months before they told me what our new account number was. We are very lucky that they weren't efficient enough to cut off our supply for non-payment. It could have happened and we would have had to close the school.

Good luck OP.

I feel your pain OP. We had a saga that lasted years with the water company and their unbelievable fuckwittery. Even as I write I keep on remembering more and more things that happened in the saga but I will not depress you by listing them. It did eventually get sorted out, but just before we had the new supply switched over (because in the end it was simpler to swallow hard and do that) we had a huge leak running down the drive, caused by the machines doing the groundwork rupturing the Victorian pipework. Twice the water company walked up and down that drive (streams of living water flowing down it - you couldn't miss it) and said there was no leak. You couldn't make it up.

I hope that it does all get sorted out for you soon.

Did you have the underfloor heating done and the floor tiles laid on top before you installed the cabinets OP? E.g. could there be edges of underfloor heating under your cabinets? Just something to be aware of.

I'm taking photos of all the mess outside.

My neighbours front garden is also partly underwater (on the lowest level of her path it's over an inch deep) It doesn't directly affect her as she's housebound but she has carers come in 2-3 times a day who are not happy about it (and rightly so).

The whole floor was fully tiled before we fitted the kitchen, so yes it all goes under the cupboards.

Sorry, meant to say I'm taking photos before (if my calls tomorrow bring no joy) escalating it further.

Loss Adjustors are often there to reduce the amount of exposure for insurers. Mine had not read my policy, I had, and I was covered, although he initially rejected the notion of part of my claim. Check the wording and if possible, ask someone with insurance knowledge to have a look at the wording too. Concrete can eat pipes and this is common knowledge, so even if they find a leak, you might find another.

I share your pain OP. I've also had wranglings with TW. In my case we had a mysterious leak in our garden...We also share a supply with 1 other house. In no case was it obvious to us anything was leaking we just had to take their word for it. They basically served a legal notice to us that it had to be fixed and offered a small grant towards repairing it providing we used one of their approved suppliers. So we went ahead did the work and then they refused to stump up. I complained (a lot). I found their complaints department worked pretty quickly and we got our money and an apology from the leaks department. Complain to TW first about how you're being treated and then the ombudsman Ofwat if you're not happy with the outcome. TW want to avoid complaints going to the ombudsman as I think they get fined etc if there's too many. Don't take this from them.

The complaints dep't have been dealing with it since July, so unfortunately in my case that's not leading to a speedy resolution.

So far my driveway has been dug up, causing thousands of pounds worth of damage (which my insurers will cover) but 5 holes later I'm now told the leak isn't there but under my house. I certainly don't want the same no of holes dug in my house. Even digging 1 hole will render my house uninhabitable....if my insurers wouldn't pay for temp accommodation I'd have a massive problem as I have no family, so there's no one who could accommodate me and my DC.

I'm so sick of having to constantly battle all this. If it wasn't for the umpteen no of phone calls I've made and emails sent, I'd still be waiting for the first holes to be dug.

I hope this leak is not your side of a water meter. I got a bill for 5 k