To think this is ridiculous? Re: Guardian opinion piece on cultural appropriation

[Feminazi]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/10/as-lionel-shriver-made-light-of-identity-i-had-no-choice-but-to-walk-out-on-her

This writer sounds like a spoilt child, unable to listen to anyone else's opinion!

Her own point is quite frankly ridiculous too! She claims that nobody should write about what they can't experience, it's cultural appropriation if they do!

With acknowledgement to some of the Guardian BTL comments

I'm English. The whole rest of the world has appropriated my culture.

Time for one of my favorite video clips ever.

here

Maybe we should have 5 years when white men aren't allowed to publish? They can still get paid, and write, and review, but for 5 years newspapers, books, movies, TVs etc are NOT allowed to be publish a white writer.

talbot you could say "I'm English. I've imposed my culture on the rest of the world". Do some reading about colonialism and our treatment of wales/scotland/ireland/Africa/india/anywhere we colonised. Then maybe you won't say such ignorant things.

Echt by denying the value of lived experience.

I'm not sure how anyone can watch/study Ian McEwan for any length of time and not come to the conclusion he is a twat. The whole of enduring love is an anti-intellectual smug wank fest and his appearance on the news this week dismissing anyone's right to feel differently to him made me feel violent.

Saw an interview with the dark haired actor from Breaking Bad (with cerebal palsy I think), I think he was saying something about people without disabilities getting awards for paying disabled characters, when disabled actors can't get work.

I'm English. The whole rest of the world has appropriated my culture.

LOL. Just ... fucking ... LOL.

That was sarcasm wasn't it Talbot? Please tell me it was sarcasm.

How frickin' long did it take her to walk out if her friend had time to text her?

Ridiculous.

Dozer RJ Mitte has spoken very well, clearly and informatively on the subject. He is very much portrayed as a straight actor by many media outlets rather than a 'disabled actor', but frequently speaks on the subject.

Just think of all the accolades Dustin Hoffman got for Rainman, and then consider how well an actor with autism may have fared in the role. That isn't to take away from Hoffman's ability and performance, but asks the question why he was given the role in the first place.

While it is just pretend, would those of you questioning this be happy returning to a time where woman couldn't be on the stage and were only portrayed by men? There are obvious issues with that.

I can't really see the point in publishing a rant about someone's speech without including any quotes or arguments from the speech. It's impossible to tell if the author was making a reasonable point about Shriver's speech or not. So a poor article that almost certainly just plays into the readers prejudices or preconceptions. Which is a pity because her subject matter is important. We should as readers have the opportunity to read writing from lots of different traditions and to read about all sorts of different characters and points of view.

Oh and George RR Martin doesn't write high fantasy. There is far more to fantasy than just Tolkien! JKR didn't go to boarding school, nor given her background is it particularly likely (when she was writing her earlier books at least) that she knew lots of people who had direct experiences of boarding schools, let alone experience of wizading! Why is recycling well used tropes so much better than inventing new styles and approaches? It would be very sad if that's all that was produced for us to read - goodness knows there is little enough new in the world of fantasy, it's a pretty conservative genre in my experience.

I have heard Lionel Schriver speak and tbh I did find her a bit smug. I wasn't in love with the writing in "....Kevin" either.

Surely this is about white/male privilege? So the problem with a white man writing as an African woman isn't that he hasn't experienced it, it's that a representative from a dominant group is claiming to speak for a subservient group. So Shakespeare writing about Danes is not a problem, unless you consider the Danes an oppressed people...

I'm on the fence about the article.

Good writers are good story tellers. If the story is well told I'm not bothered about the authenticity of their personal experience.

BUT that doesn't mean that we don't need more diverse voices heard because we definitely do.

Otherwise every story is just filtered through the same lens of white privilege.

I do fucking hate Lionel Shriver as a writer though. All her female characters are utterly loathesome. But I don't think she means for them to be.

Re: her argument that Nigerian women aren't getting published, etc. I'm a writer and i've been on plenty of shortlists for prizes against writers from Nigeria, China, Tibet, etc. If anything, the literary world seems to be hungry for the work of these writers. I don't think The Man is trying desperately to hold non-white/ Western writers back.

I agree it's ridiculous. It's called fiction - I don't see it as cultural appropriation, just telling someone else's story. A made-up someone else. Is the reverse true? Should I only read stories about white, middle-class women with children and a professional qualification? Are we to have books where all the characters are the same to ensure that nobody's offended by someone telling 'their' story?

It's also somewhat prescriptive about what people can write about. Maybe, if the (hypothetical, for the point of the article) queer Indigenous man was a writer he wanted to write detective novels, or historical romances. Is he to be told that he is only allowed to write about what he knows as well?

Dave Eggers - a white, now rich, middle-aged American wrote a brilliant story called 'What is the What' about a Sudanese refugee - by the Guardian article's argument books like that should never have been written. Even Jane Austen, who clearly write about what she knew, shouldn't have been published as she's appropriated motherhood which she had never experienced.

Possibly I'm irrationally annoyed because author's writing in the piece was just so, so terrible - and technically incorrect - the beating of the heels on the carpet would be half the pace of a heart infused with adrenaline.

Excuse typos. I actually like Shriver and I loved Kevin. As a non-mother Shriver was berated by women who claimed that she was unqualified to write about motherhood, as well.

I think the writer has a valid point, too. I do not believe in censorship. I do however feel quite strongly that if you are going to write about something, do so properly and do not further promulgate myths, unwittingly or otherwise, a la Attwood and Haddon.

Revolting article. Peak Guardian.

No wonder they're going under with garbage like this.

Jane Austen didn't write about motherhood, did she? More about mothers, from the perspective of a daughter.

There are plenty of black, Asian, women and working class writers. The issue is both getting published, and people buying those books.

KickAssAngel censorship and suppression of literature has never been a good move for change and development.

One way to change is to look at the way non-white, non-male writers' books are reviewed and portrayed, because the western world still categorizes non-western literature to fit into stereotypical themes or that single story that Chimamanda Adichie talked about in the link you posted.

Dozer true, although there are family members who have children in most of her novels and she writes about them. And Emma and Anne Elliot don't have mothers, if I'm remembering correctly. Although Emma has a baby - it grows out of its caps.

I really enjoyed 'The Autograph Man' by Zadie Smith. I think it would be news to her as a mixed race woman that she had no right telling the entirely fictional story of a Jewish-Chinese man.

I think it's an attitude that does all writers a disservice. If only Nigerian women can write stories where a Nigerian woman features then it follows that Nigerian women can't write with any other narrative voice.

That article reminded me why I seldom read the Guardian any more. Wowzers it was bad!

Caipora - I was being more than a little tongue-in-cheek about banning white men. I have opposing views on censorship. I equally believe that censorship is a bad thing, and also that certain topics and people should not be allowed in public.

Cognitive dissonance is an old bedfellow of mine.

Oddly, the article would never have been published by the Guardian if it had been written by someone pale, male, and stale!

I read this and I agree with you OP, I do think it's unreasonable.

Fiction is fiction - a story, using one's imagination - putting yourself in the place of others as a writer.

Why is it a bad thing if a white person writes about being black?