To think the labour leader debate last night was a mistake

[pleasemothermay1]

I think most people Barr hard core momentumites reasies if your to ever win a election now you will have to win over Troy's hi

It was a shambles there was booing people shouting at Owen

I think It was a awful mistake and only showed how devided that labour is more than any mature debate 😳

And after the election if all the shadow cabinet do just fall in behind jc I think the Tory's will simply make hay with the filp Flopness of the MPs

This is not about weather you like jc or not it's weather Tory's and UKIP voters will elect him
Answer I don't think I will be voting labour anytime soon

For what it's worth I think owns a bits weak as well

Natasha Oh you know which parties I have voted for in the last few general elections do you? I may not be a paid up member of the Labour Party, but I have voted for them in the past. I have already stated I like a lot of Corbyn's policies both on this thread and on others. I am not calling them idiots because we differ politically, I am calling them idiots because they are behaving like idiots, whether that's Corbyn refusing to quit, MPs refusing to serve under Corbyn, the PLP trying to prevent new members from voting in the election, Owen thinking he's good enough to be leader etc etc etc. NOTHING to do with political differences. ALL to do with the whole lot of them behaving like idiots.

I agree it was terrible. Owen Jones is an idiot and it showed. JC comes across better but clearly is a nightmare to work for so no way can he lead the party. No one good wants the job so we have no opposition. I'm still counting my lucky stars May stepped up to lead the Tories, can you imagine if we had either Boris or Gove unopposed at the moment?
The whole thing is totally depressing let's hope it gets sorted by 2020 with some kind of credible candidate to lead.

DrDre, I totally agree with what you say about JC. Man of principle also = someone who is rigidly inflexible and refuses to listen to alternative views or have the humility to sometimes change his mind.

I think I'd rather vote for my 6yr old DDs political party (the pink heart party ) at the moment.

*Owen Smith
Would that it were Owen Jones - he'd do a much better job!!

Owen Jones?!?!?! Christ alive. Nasty piece of work.

Labour is shot. It no longer properly exists.
Clearly, some sort of reformation is going to have to take place.

Corbyn is going to win but it will be a meaningless win and a hollow one borne out of protest.
Happily, I do not vote Labour but I certainly do think we need a credible opposition. It's impossible to imagine where that is going to come from - or when.

I just don't get the hero worship of JC?

He's part of the establishment and has been for years. Yes, he's voted against his own party many times but has he actually or anything done?

He's never held a cabinet post, he has (to me) very dodgy support for Hamas/Hizbollah, did not deal with anti-semitism allegations within the party with any degree of conviction and his attitude/responses to treatment of women leaves a lot to be desired.

I just don't get why people think he's up for the job of PM. How would he possibly deal with international issues, for example? And his idea of renationalising the railways. I remember those days and the trains were shit!

Please don't come back and say he's principled, I just don't believe that's enough. I think his working man's stance is also rather thin if you look at his actual background.

I'm not saying his opponents are any better.... I wish the Lib Dems would come out fighting, they could get a lot of new supporters but they seemed to have been rendered totally mute

I just don't get why people think he's up for the job of PM.

I don't think they do.

Even the fundamental aim of The Labour Party set out in their Articles of Association is to form an effective opposition. Forming a Government has never been their purpose.

For a life long Labour supporter it was depressing to watch

Smith isn't going to win there would be no point putting a really good candidate up against Corbyn at the moment as his support in the party membership is too strong - elsewhere it isn't as the real test of popularity shows in voting and it has been disastrous

sadly we have JC leading a useless opposition for another probably two years and his support will wane how many rallies can you attend hearing the same old thing and nothing being done about actually getting Labour into power people will get bored

I thought no you labour lot are in for a long wait until the mayor is ready to take control of the party 😕😢

I am a strong Tory even I feel to have good govermnet you need strong opposition

OP, you're a strong Tory? I'd never have guessed...

Personally I think lib dems should try and pouch the de selected labour MP and rest assured they will be de selected

poster StillDrSethHazlittMD Fr
😁😁😁😁😁😁

Dosent mean I delight in what's going on with labour it's actually awful

There was a lady who spoke yesterday in the debate a labour member who was fighting back the tears she just felt so awful about what was happening it's was quite difficult to watch

I don't want a Tory dictatorship running for years and I don't agree with everything they do but the opposition is pretty useless

Btw I was also pretty aghast how boris and gov behaved during brexit

I think the big problem is that the coup leaders, Smith et al. have made no attempt to understand or adjust to this new state of affairs. On an emotional level I like JCs integrity and consistency, his manner, and the way that he doesn't seem to pick his policies from whatever the most recent focus group said

But that doesn't mean that he is the best leader or the Labour Party. If the plotters had made a believable effort to engage I think there would have been space for a 'not Corbyn' candidate. But Smith is just simply a rubbish politician. I don't know what his actual beliefs are but he comes across as sexist, anti gay, flip flopping policies, personal attacks and attempts at sound bites, generally negative campaigning whilst insulting the majority of the party members!

If the coup plotters had just engaged their brains slightly before setting this course of action it could have been different - but now has just reinforced the fault lines between the plp and members

I'm not saying his opponents are any better.... I wish the Lib Dems would come out fighting, they could get a lot of new supporters but they seemed to have been rendered totally mute
Yes bagel! I'm a LD voter but Tim Farron just doesn't appeal really. And where are they? It's sad.

Which ever candidate stood last night in Sheff would have been beaten. A 'secure' borough in a historic Lab position and we still managed to throw it away.
I like JC BUT it just isn't going to stick with the electorate. We simply no not live in a left-leaning country. OS is a poor candidate. The more I see of him the less I like him.

Feel dismal about the real prospect of another 5 years of the Nasty Party in 2020. Because we can't get our shit together.

Unjust don't understand it, Felas. They should be making political capital out of this situation and I've heard nothing! I listen to a lot of political stuff on the radio and there is never a POV from the Lib Dems. I wonder if their lack of MPs means they're being ignored by the political media. But where is Tim Fallon at least. My DS 25 is just as bemused. He would prob vote for the Lib Dems but doesn't understand their lack of "voice" they could have really been the effective opposition at the moment.

They were trying to put together some kind of cross party anti-brexit thing, maybe that's taking their energy. I'm a "friend of" so I get emails from them, not had one for ages though.

I've voted LD often in the past and after the referendum felt moved to become a member. They seem pretty active at a local level (in my area at least), and I've had lots of emails, invitations to meetings etc. I think as Felas suggests that they're ignored by the national mainstream media now that they're such a diminished force in parliament. Sorry to derail, realise this thread is not meant to be about the LDs.

Bagel even.

I don't get the JC hero-worship. I'm not a Tory voter, have never voted Tory and I'm very far from a fan of the Tories. I am a floating voter, I guess. However, I can't vote labour while JC is the leader.

I don't think he's nearly as principled or honest as he'd like to make out. I actually find him a bit unsettling and don't find him trustworthy, although I can't entirely put my finger on why. I did think his handling of matters within the party left a lot to be desired. Especially having listened to some things the MPs are saying about how chaotically things were run from his office, the way his staff behaved towards anyone who doesn't agree with JC/them on any given matter. JC either sanctioned or condoned this behaviour. I know some will say they were lying/exaggerating, which is possible I suppose, but even if only part of it is true I think it shows JC is just as devious, ambitious and ruthless as any other politician. I don't like the people he surrounds himself with and responses to way his staff/ supporters have acted have been sadly lacking in leadership and very far from "kinder" politics he is so keen on espousing.

As a long-term party rebel, it's a bit rich to expect loyalty from others now and condemning them when he can't win their support. I find his support for organisations such as hezbollah concerning, especially when combined with his underwhelming response to the issues around anti-Semitism within the party.

I think he has one or two interesting ideas, but so many of his policies don't make sense when scrutinised or hark back to the past or simply aren't realistic. I also don't trust him with important decisions, his views seem very rigid.

Not that I think Tories are much better, I have real problems with the way they are running things.

MotherofPearl

Jacks Exactly! I think he's surrounded himself with a rather nasty clique of people. Feels like they would quite like to carry out a Stalinist purge if they could.