8yo girls must wear shorts under skirts...

[MyFirstMyLastMyEverythingBagel]

... In order to play on the bars in the school playground?!
My 8yo DD came home from school yesterday upset as she wasn't allowed to play on them - the teacher had said she needed to have shorts on as the boys would see her knickers.
I'm really upset by this, she is 8 years old and has a life time ahead of her to be worrying about modesty/body image without the school instilling it in her at 8. We've had a lovely summer, much of it spent splashing in the river / sea, DD totally in self aware in her knickers and a t shirt.
I'm actually pretty cross and plan to speak to the head about it, but want to know if iabu? How would you feel about it? My child is a child and I don't feel she should be made to feel self conscious about a brief knicker flash when she is playing.

Bloody ridiculous and imposing adult thoughts on children. Who cares if a boy sees a flash of an 8 years olds knickers?!?! I'm betting the boy will have far more fun things to do! Very offensive towards the boys as well. I would be up in arms about this, it is just silly.

'are fully prepared for life in modern Britain ' ... well, sadly yes. Females being objectified, judged for their dress choices, males not having to modify their behaviour ... yup, they're doing a sterling job

Meadows - Jeez you have a highly conservative definition of 'decency'. I do not share it.

And you contradict yourself in the space of one sentence:

Not because I think she has to be ashamed of her knickers but because I think its ok to teach them to cover up, sit properly etc - if that's not teaching her to be ashamed of her knickers, I don't know what is.

Teach anything as 'the norm' then of course it isn't an issue. That's the problem - making girls and women feel that they are responsible for the response of men has been a cultural norm for far too long. The thick end of that wedge is women being blamed for violent assaults on them because they wore short skirts, rapists being excused because their victims were drunk or out late. If only women were 'modest' or didn't drink or go out, then 'decency' would be preserved for us all, wouldn't it?

As I posted upthread not all primary school girls are prepubescent though.
At 11 years old before she would have left school (H.ed) my dd was on her way to being regular but not quite.
you can't always be governed by what is termed normal though and some girls will be pubescent at this age.
My dd school now allows shorts and trousers, she won't wear a skirt.

I suppose in this case the school either take away the equipment, or allow girls to wear shorts as uniform.
Parent's either agree with wearing shorts under uniform, kick up a fuss, or tell their dd' s not to play on the equipment.

There was a thread about this some time ago. Some teaches explained they didn't want to see flashes of genitala because of poorly fitting or too small knickers or poo/wee stained pants as the girls cartwheeled etc.

If that really is the situation then they shouldn't have skirts as part of their school uniform at all. After all, maybe a girl who isn't wearing shorts under her dress because she isn't cartwheeling might fall and, horror of horrors, expose her knickers that way.

I am never sure why uniform has to be so traditionally gendered anyway. If you have a uniform why isn't it the same for all kids? Aren't uniforms in part about belonging in a school and all being identifiable as a community as well as to prevent distractions from learning and play not about what sex you are?

Clothes in school should be practical, comfortable and easy to move about in - whatever the activity - regardless of a child's sex. If they are going to include skirts and dresses a) there should be no discrimination or limitation on what activities children wearing those clothes can participate in b) children of either sex should be able to wear any and all items in the uniform.

If no one can cope with girls knickers (argh the horror!) or even boys in skirts (god forbid) then the uniform should be shorts/trousers for both. The likelihood of this ever happening is

I'd totally understand not wanting knickers flashing, as boys would probably be also reprimanded for dropping their shorts and show their knickers.

BUT, shorts and trousers for all should definitely be allowed.

I would hate to be bossed around by the school on this, what a nerve. My DD1 does feel a little self conscious when doing cartwheels/on the climbing frame (mostly due to other girls mentioning it) so I bought her culottes and the gingham playsuits from M+S. I have no problem with her knickers showing but she does, this solved the problem.

Lweji boys do not wear dresses generally so there's no risk of their pants on show.

It's not comparable to them dropping their pants FFS!

If boys want to wear dresses then they should also be allowed to just as girls should be able to wear shorts.

And no...nobody should have to wear shorts on top of their underwear incase of flashes of undergarments! These are CHILDREN!

It's got nothing to do with modesty and everything to do with parents sending their kids to school with cameraphones. The bullies then use them to take up-skirt photos and publish on social media.

The school might take phones off students when they see them but a lot of kids learn how to hide them. I personally password restricted the camera part on all my kids phones for that reason.

At my dc primary school girls are actively encourage to wear shorts/trousers instead of a summer dress/skirt. The playground can be seen from the main road and, if wearing a skirt/summer dress then shorts must be worn underneath or girls cannot use the climbing equipment. No one ever seems to have objected to it.

Really children under 11 or in our case as its first school under 9 habitually taking kndebent pictures of their school mates and posting online? Really that's commen?

Nonsense. If this occurs it's now a criminal offence as revenge poem and should be reported to the police.

Should we ban shops because some people shoplift?

Theresaomething

That's possibly one of the saddest posts I have seen. Ffs adults in general arnt peering at little girls pants.

In general, no but we have a responsibility to protect our children.

VioletBam
Did you read my post properly?

Women's rights are going backwards. Girls are being forced younger and younger to moderate their behaviour and dress so others don't have to.

The playground can be seen from the main road and, if wearing a skirt/summer dress then shorts must be worn underneath or girls cannot use the climbing equipment.

My God, is there really that many perverts hanging about on the main road looking at the kid's knickers? I don't think so. Very, very sad.

I remember I had to start a petition when I was at primary school in the 90s to be allowed to wear trousers - looks like things haven't moved on much then.

Yes we all have a responsibility to protect the rights of children to act and dress like children. Pants cover genitalia.

By adults insisting 'girls' wear shorts over pants is telling girls they must cover themselves to prevent sex attacks.

Same old crap about mini skirts and skimpy tops, walking alone at night and being tipsy makes it understandable for them to be raped.

Ffs agree Baroness we are going backward.

Why? where has this come from? Is it the influence of increasing popularity of mysogynistic religions or an influx of people from patriarchal cultures.

Surely as we have put the ridiculous attitudes of Christianity to bed are we really seeing other religions now filling the void of idiocy and their hatred and control of women and girls?

Its really disturbing stuff Yorkie and yes it does feel like going backwards. Paedophiles are more than capable of sexualising any child, even one who is covered from head to toe. Expecting little girls to cover up with shorts because of what boys and adult men might think about seeing their knickers makes me sad and furious in equal measure.

Also had this issue last year, i was gobsmacked.

This thread is so depressing

I'm having difficulty with DD at the moment, as she insists on wearing shorts or leggings under a skirt or dress. She's only 6 but doesn't want to show her knickers. I am encouraging her not to feel like this, but I also feel a bit wrong insisting that she go out dressed in something she feels so uncomfortable in.

Er I came from a predominately Muslim school in the UK during the 80s and ALL non muslim girls (including me a Hindu) wore skirts.

The problem isn't muslims. The problem is we now live in a world that's very different to what we had before - cameraphones mean that YES kids that young do take pants photos & use it to bully. I know this from experience as our school warned me that it had happened a few times & that all camera phones would be banned in DS school. As I couldn't afford to get DS a new phone I restricted the camera. Telescopic lenses mean perverts can take shots of children in playgrounds from further away than before. Kids are getting sexualized earlier due to irresponsible internet monitoring (or lack of it). Legislative changes mean that if anything were to happen to the girl on school premises & the staff hadn't done everything in their power to stop it, including telling them to wear shorts, then the system (and parents) now will sue.

So don't fucking blame muslims. They have been in this country since the 70s & while the Daily Fail will gleefully devote more time to reporting muslim crime the truth is that more non-muslim pedos/rapists have been convicted in the UK than muslim ones.

dds school has this.
They all stick their pe shorts on before lunch play and then take them off when they come in.

Girls can wear uniform (as in from Asda uniform range) shorts or trousers or dresses or skirts, or summer dresses. But if in a dress or skirt their stick their pe shorts on underneath for playtime.

*Running I am not blaming Muslims. Please don't do this as it stifles important debate by labelling those of us who see this as disturbing as somehow wrong.

I don't use the word racist as you can't be racist to a religion. Religion is a life style choice so you choose to be Muslim or Christian or whatever. You can't choose colour so you can only be racist on the basis of colour.

Now you say this shorts business is due to camera phones? So using phones to take pornographic pictures is an offence. Schools should punish the offender not require the innocent to change their behaviour in order to stop the offence.

We are back to the mini skirt and rape issue if schools do this.

Schools need robust policies on safeguarding, inappropriate sexual behaviour and deal with offenders via the police.

Little girls should not be required up comer their pants in case adults use telescopic lenses to peer at them.

Surely you can see the implications of this. If you can't then agree with Lotta the rights of women and girls are being violated more not less.