Dd and Hungarian boy in her class

[GastonsPomPomWrath]

This is wwyd situation. Please be gentle with me.

It's my children's first day back at school today. Dd is 8 and has just started year 4. She's a bright child, top of the class, good in all subjects.

There's a new boy in the class. We'll call him Y. Y is Hungarian and speaks no or very very limited English at the moment.

The teacher has put my dd with Y to partner him in everything. She must work with him, talk to him, play with him at play time and lunchtime and help him during dinner in the hall. He has to copy her work exactly so he can learn to write our language. Dd didn't manage to finish her work because Y was struggling to keep up with her.

Dd told the teacher that she was having trouble understanding him and him understanding her and the teacher replied that she "hasn't got a choice" and she "must teach him how to speak and write English."

Now I do understand that the boy is probably better off being integrated in the classroom to pick up the way things are done and the language but is it totally reasonable for the teacher to carry on with her lesson whilst letting my dd teach Y? The school don't seem to have any resources or staff available to teach one to one for children who don't use English as their first language. The teaching assistant didn't offer any help (I asked Dd)

Would you be happy with this situation?

Dd came home asking me to help her figure out how she will communicate with him tomorrow.

[Ninasimoneinthemorning]

Yes I agree nellie . Thankfully it won't be happening any more

[mathanxiety]

I am inclined to agree Nellieellie.
I also think the OP was right to be concerned and also that this is a fantastic opportunity for the whole class as long as the opportunity is shared around.

For about half a year in one year in elementary school, DD1 was put in the position of sitting next to a child who was quite badly behaved and sadly for him but also sadly for my DD he had clearly been exposed to some very misogynistic ideas about girls. Anyhow, the following year the same boy was in her class group and lo and behold the new teacher seated him next to DD1. I waited until the parent teacher meetings to bring it up. The teacher immediately switched him. Of course, this meant some other girl was saddled with him. The whole situation was completely unsatisfactory.

The school had a policy of seating boys next to girls up to about age 10, and I had huge objections to this but never brought them up. I hated it for what it said about the school's view of both girls and boys. There was a clear implication that girls were both qualified and well able to occupy themselves keeping the boys in line as well as focusing on their own work, and there were very low expectations of the boys. The idea that girls should have to act as minders in class was one I found appalling. I went to an all girls junior school and there was a lot in the mixed environment that I found very jarring.

[ohtheholidays]

I'm really glad you spoke to the school OP.I used to teach and the fact that your DD had got it right is really bad on the teacher and the school.

Your DD is so tiny,by all means they should encourage all the children at the school to include everyone and to try to be friendly and thoughtful towards all the other children they attend school with but there is no way that a trained teacher should had said it in a way that made your DD think she was solely responsible for another pupil!

I can remember when I was in secondary school(and I'm 41 now) we had a new girl start and she was from a tiny village in India that didn't even have electricity or running water so coming to this country was a huge shock to the system bless her let alone attending a secondary school with over 500 students in a deprived area.

She spoke no English at all,we were of course encouraged to be friendly towards her and to help her find her wat round the school ect but no teacher ever suggested that we should be responsible for her the whole day and no way would they have asked us to let her copy our work.
They paid and got a new member of staff in that was there solely to help that one girl learn how to speak and write English,she learn't her about the different tradtions,religions,about England has an whole and about the area we went to school and the area she was living in.

In less than 9 months,she could speak and write English and was doing really well at school.She helped teach her Mother to speak amd write English and that was 28 years ago.
So if our school that was over subscribed(the only all girls school)and not in a great area could offer that kind of support I can't honestly understand how your DD's school can't in this day and age,the UK is more diverse now than it's ever been.

Both of our DC's(we have 5DC)schools primary and secondary both have Hungarian children attending the schools and some of the parents of older students that now speak English have been helping the newer parents that don't speak English,whilst the school has bought in staff to help the children learn English.

[sashh]

It is not unusual to pair up a child for the first week or two. Easier to do at secondary because there are more kids.

One school I worked at we would get an email saying there was a new starter, how much English they had and which student they would be matched with for two weeks.

So for the first two weeks a new ESL child would attend all the classes of their matched peer, if matched peer was in top set for everything or top set for subject X and bottom for subject Y the new child went to every class with them.

After two weeks the new student can find their way around the school, know where the toilets are, and are already picking up English at a surprising rate.

OP come back in 6 weeks with another thread please and let us know how much English he speaks - you will be surprised.

Do check with the teacher but I doubt she is expected to actually teach him. Also doesn't she have other friends? Are they nor playing with both of them at break?

[Willow2016]

TBh I suspect that the teacher was backtracking a bit. Having had my fair share of crap responses from teachers in the past and crap 'stratagies',

One of my sons was being bullied by a boy who was notorious as a bully, he didnt just pick on my son but he was the main target including in class during lessons. (He also deisrupted classes with his behaviour as he didnt give a toss) He would try to trip him up when he went past carrying books to hand out, would steal his pencils, rubbers etc then deny it, would stop my son from getting on with his work, it was never ending.

After having meetings with school they said they would sort it out.

Start of new term... classroom has been rearranged. My son now sitting BESIDE the bloody bully so getting pestered twice as much as before! WTAF went through their heads?

[Willow2016]

Posted too soon.

Apparently the idea was that as my son was well behaved and just got on with his work the other boy would copy him and settle down! Yeah right... scribbling on my sons work, poking him, talking to him, hiding his stuff that really worked!

[LagunaBubbles]

So basically as many of us suspected - your daughter had totally got the wrong end of the stick

Doesnt sound like that to me - sounds like OPs daughter said exactly what her teacher had told her and the teacher saying she "may have worded it badly" is her backtracking.

[dowhatnow]

You have been reasonable throughout all your posts op. Can't believe the roasting you've got from some.

You have been concerned for the boys welfare but equally you didn't see why that responsibility fell on just your child's shoulders.

So what if the teacher backtracked a bit. What seemed a good idea obviously wasn't and when she retrospectively realised she had put too much pressure on dd, she therefore adapted her approach. She may even have been telling the truth and already revised the situation by putting him on the table with more kids.

Teachers make mistakes sometimes, under pressure themselves and often have little classroom support. What is important here is that the op didn't go in all guns blazing, but went in to support her dd and to make the teacher aware that all was not right. The teacher has sorted it. This to me looks like a good relationship with the school. I think the op will continue to encourage her dd to be kind and supportive to the boy, just now her dd doesn't feel it's all on her shoulders.

Well handled op.

[exaltedwombat]

What does the girl think about this? If she's "top of the class" she's accustomed to achieving. Teaching another person rarely holds you back.

[LyndaNotLinda]

Well none of us know if the teacher was backtracking or the OP's DD got the wrong end of the stick. Main thing is that the OP's DD is feeling less anxious and that the responsibility is not hers alone.

No child should be solely responsible for another's well-being.

[deafalberta]

I rather doubt that DD is expected to have sole responsibility for this child!! She was probably asked to "buddy" him as she is the "top of her class" and best able to give a little time to help. I'm sorry, but I don't believe in this day and age a school would leave the integration of a non English speaking child into school to another very young child.
If you had to relocate, wouldn't you want the teacher to "buddy" your child with the best available?
Unless the school is extremely "poor" in Ofsted inspection I think a word with the actual staff might be helpful. DD may be exaggerating a tad.

[randomer]

it is about 10 years since my boys were in Primary school.....but I don't recall being obsessed by their place in the class or who they were sitting next to.

There was a minor incident which was dealt with swiftly. For the most part they had friends, did the work and were happy and secure.

Neither of them came home with any silly tittle tattle about other children and if they said anything unkind we just pointed out people are different and we don't really know whats going on.

I don't think I knew if thy were on the green table or the top table or whatever.

[almondpudding]

I'm glad you have been able to resolve this, OP.

While it is important to have experiences of helping others, it is also important that children learn that their boundaries will be respected if they find such tasks difficult, overwhelming or feel out of their depth.

It is good that your daughter was able to tell you she was worried, and that you were able to help her.

[3BagsFull]

I did ask the teacher what was going on this morning. She confirmed that the child had been placed with my dd yesterday for the whole day. I told her what dd had said and she said she might have worded it badly at the time. I explained that I wasn't entirely happy with it but the teacher said that today there a classroom rearrange and he would be on the table with others as well. A group of about 5 I think.

This afternoon when I collected dd she said he was quite disruptive all day (understandably, he's in a strange place with strange people) and he was moved next to another child closer to the teacher.

I feel very, very sorry for the poor boy. It seems like the school has absolutely zero policy or plan in place for this (not at all uncommon) situation. The boy's disruptive behaviour is entirely understandable, he is being passed around and made to feel like he is not wanted and belongs to nobody and nowhere.

OP - could you perhaps tell your DD that she is not responsible for this kid, but perhaps making friends with him would be a real act of kindness?

[Janey50]

I think it is outrageous that the teacher told your daughter that she 'has to teach him how to speak and write English'. Your daughter is there to learn,not act as a language teacher to another pupil! If I were you,I would speak to the teacher and tell her that it has to stop NOW. And if that gets you nowhere,you should speak to the headteacher. I would not accept this situation. Good luck.

[Chopstick17]

All good OP. As with most things, always get both sides first.

[randomer]

bloody disruptive Hungarians. send em back

[Chikara]

We experienced same thing. Not on. My DD just got on with it but it wasn't fair. She found it held her back and affected her friendships as she was always with the other girl. It only lasted a term though.

Also my DS who "struggles" was put in a set with a group of non-English speakers and basically there was one TA teaching all of them. No budget for 2nd language speakers - and they are not asked to pay anything or to take extra classes at in their own time and at their own cost. nOt something anyone will address though.

[RichardBucket]

and they are not asked to pay anything or to take extra classes at in their own time and at their own cost.

Of course they're not, because that would be bloody wrong.

[Chikara]

But it's not wrong for a kid with real problems - that they were born with - to have no support because rich people who can pay just choose to send their child to an English school to get a bi-lingual education? In the end the children who don't have the choice, who won't just get better as the term goes on, whose education is suffering - it is their parents who pay for help.

[MatildaTheCat]

It does sound as if the teacher has unexpectedly had the new child placed in her class and is doing her best. OP has explained she's not happy so teacher has rearranged things and is continuing to do so. Let's hope the teacher gets some more adult support but in the meantime? This poor teacher deserves our full support, not a bunch of criticism about how badly she is handling things.

Just imagine you were a team manager and had a colleague placed with the team who spoke no English yet all work had to continue as usual. Tricky, no?

[clam]

The boy's disruptive behaviour is entirely understandable

Not necessarily. He could just be challenging regardless.

[randomer]

I think all forefingers should be forced to pay for English classes and kept away from out lovely successful natives until they are at least at degree level.

[randomer]

yes forefingers are very bad

[mathsmum314]

Just tell your DD to ignore this boy, if he copies her work fine but she shouldn't slow down just for him. If he he follows her to the lunch hall again fine but she doesn't have to talk to him or play with him just because the teachers asked her to. She should just go about her day as normal.