to surprised that this sort of cheating for a secondary school place still goes on?

[bibbitybobbityyhat]

I thought the schools were generally supposed to be more on top of this sort of scam:

Family outside catchment of highly desirable school let out their house, move to a rented house within catchment for two years to go through admission process and get their first dd into the school, then move back to their original family home. Now their next three dd's will go to that school even though they all now live outside of the catchment!

A feel a certain sort of contempt for people who would do this, and am really surprised that schools still turn a blind eye.

Whether the sibling rule is abolished or not should not be the choice of the school but determined at a LA level. The same criteria across the board would be a start for fairness. A close friend of mine has her DS going to a last-choice, far away school because the local school has sibling priority and has filled up. The school he is going to, within the same LA, doesn't have sibling priority so her youngest could just end up anywhere next year.

Different criteria within the same LA means some people have more priorities than others (both sibling for one school, catchment for another, religion for a back up) while some are not a priority for anywhere.

Bravado - personally I have no issue with an atheist who puts themselves out for 3 years by going to church to get into a school although some might. I have been through the secondary school process and am about to do it again. Frankly I agree with PP that the issue is that the LA don't deal with underperformance the way they should. Whilst there are some schools in problem areas that will always struggle I fail to understand why in middle class suburbia where I live the HT has been allowed to remain so long when the school is classed as special measures by ofsted and the GCSE results are terrible. 5 miles down the road the school is outstanding and has double the pass rates for GCSE. Why would any parent resent someone who goes out of their way to get their kid in the good school without cheating the system. Vent your anger at the LA op for allowing this underperformance, not at people who are just trying to do the best for their children.

In China people rent tiny spaces between houses where there once was a house, then get a school place whilst living at their normal house.

"Nothing wrong with that confused"

DDTDQ - Sorry, I think I may have missed your point here?

Bubba- what's wrong with one parent going to church and the either not?

**other

WHEN I WAS WAITING FOR MY SECOND TO START SCHOOL AND HEARING ABOUT ALL THE CONVERTING THAT WAS GOING ON BY PARENTS WHO SINCE HAVENT BEEN BACK TO CHURCH SINCE THEY GOT THEIR CHILDS SPACE, SOME WOULD SAY "WELL YOU'D DO ANYTHING FOR YOUR KIDS WOULDNT YOU?"
WHAT KIND OF MORALS DOES THIS TEACH KIDS? WHAT KIND OF MOCKERY ARE YOU MAKING OF PEOPLE WHO DO BELIEVE IN GOD OR WHO ARE TRYING TO TEACH THEIR KIDS TO LEAD HONEST LIVES AND HOW FAR WOULD YOU GO?
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY GROW UP AND DONT GET THE JOBS THEY WANT ETC WILL YOU BE PROUD IF THEY BEND THE RULES, FIND LOOPHOLES TO EXPLOIT, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF GOOD NATURE TO GET WHAT THEY WANT? OR ASK YOU TO DO IT FOR THEM?
SOMETIMES LIFE IS CRAP AND YOU DONT GET WANT YOU WANT AND PEOPLE NEED TO ADJUST AND GET ON WITH IT OR IT ALL JUST BECOMES ONE MESSY FREE FOR ALL AND MORALS AND GOOD OLD FASHIONED HARD WORK AND DECENCY WILL GO OUT THE WINDOW.

You're quite right OP. It's underhanded and shouldn't be allowed. There is enough inequality in the education system without people abusing it.

Moving to a new area because the schools are good is not the same as temporarily renting a house near your desired school for the express purpose of beating genuinely in-catchment families to a place.

It's bad enough that poorer, less desirable areas often have below-average schools. But places being taken stealthily by wealthier families who can afford to just rent an extra house on top of paying their mortgage is yet another way of increasing the inequality.

Many parents are willing to go to extreme lengths to do the best for their children, which is understandable. But the system should not allow it to happen. Parental choice of school sounds like such a good thing, but I do sometimes think a lottery system would be better for society and schools.

What kind of morals does it teach them if you say that you can only go to the good school if your parents believe in deities of some kind? You atheist kids can have the shitty school?
Fuck that. It's your system that is fucked up, there shouldn't be great schools and crappy schools, they should all be good schools. But thats not how you have it set up, so don't blame the people trying to do the best for their kids in a shitty system.

Hedda- agreed!

Why are you assuming all the sought after schools are faith schools, Hedda? I don't think that's necessarily the case at all, so it's a bit of a flawed argument.

I'm not. I'm responding to the person who specifically said about religious schools.
It might be a flawed argument if anyone said such a thing, but they didn't.

Runslikethewind - going to church for 3 years teaches your kids that if you really want something badly enough if you go out of your way to make it happen it is possible, but if you just sit and moan about how life isn't fair you won't get anywhere. Going to church for 3 years to get your kids into school does not teach them to take advantage of anyone's good nature (whose??), and it doesn't mean people aren't leading 'honest lives'. I think you are really taking this to an extreme. And why are you shouting!!

I responded to what you specifically said. Very specifically.

No you didn't. You responded to what you thought I said.

If you say so

My neighbours did this - bought a flat near a good state school, lived in it for a while and rented out their main house. I think they lived in the flat for a few years though. Is this illegal here? Do schools do background checks on parents/living arrangements etc? I wasn't aware thy broke any rules but I may be wrong?

I don't think it's any worse than people buying in catchment for outstanding schools, or suddenly finding faith.

Oh, you have to love the weirdness of modern life where scheming to get your child a place at a school you shouldn't get in to is OK, but typing in capital letters on a web forum is a hangable offence.

I think I might have been the one to raise religion, my point being quite simple. It is not saying to your children "work hard to get the best from life" it is saying to your children "it is OK to pretend to get something you otherwise wouldn't be entitled to".

I can explain that for you, but I can't understand it for you.

Having said that it is only specific faith schools have that problem> I am a governor at a non-faith school which is bloody fantastic (and in a poor area).

Hmm unexpsoc I think children will be more damaged by a lack of education and poor grades at GCSE than the knowledge that their mother went to church every Sunday for 3 years to get them the best education they could. But each to their own.

Wouldn't work in Solihull. It's catchment then siblings here for the state controlled schools.

You really don't understand the difference between ensuring the house you buy is in the catchment for the school you prefer, and buying a (most probably far, far cheaper) house outside the catchment; and then pretending to the school admission board that you actually live somewhere else, gilly?
What exactly confuses you into thinking both those scenarios are the same?

Why should people who can afford expensive houses be entitled to better schools than those who can't? You may just as well auction school places and let the richer ones have first dibs.
Amusing that people who can afford the premium bleat about being outsmarted by poorer but savvier people

I hate to admit it, MrsGuy, but I can actually see your point. In my case; our preferred school was a faith one, massively oversubscribed because it was perceived as being "better" than the other non faith options.
It's probably instrinsically no different (faith aspect aside), but the perception is what drives the prices up and causes the "premium" you mention.
So the system is basically shit for all of us.

My parents did this for me. They went to church every Sunday for 5 years so that myself and my sibling could go to a high achieving school. They are not bad people. I am haven't turned into a terrible person who thinks I can exploit people and rules. But I have turned into a high achiever who earns a very high salary, and I have the privilege of enjoying the benefits of this. I will be eternally grateful to my parents, because I know that I never would have any of this if I had been sent to the local comp. Those school years are so important in shaping who you are and what you can become. So take the moral high ground if you wish, but I for one will take every necessary step to ensure my children have the best opportunity possible. If that means moving somewhere temporarily or long term, going to church or whatever it takes rather than moaning about other people who have done exactly that.