To ask for same pay as male colleague for same role?

[Clearlynotmyname]

I've just been through a restructure at work and a male colleague and I were both promoted into senior roles - similar (but not identical) jobs of the same level.

We both received pay rises as a result, but I've just found out that he is now on 20% more than me. We used to be on roughly the same salary.

I have more years of experience, and more direct experience in the field we're in. My team and budget is also significantly larger, so it can't be justified on that basis.

Unlike him though, I am not mates with the top management, and I did not go to them recently with an external offer and threaten to leave. Instead I actually said I wanted to stay - nice reward for my loyalty!

I know I can't expect a good pay deal to land in my lap, I have to negotiate. Which is why men are often paid more, because they are more willing to do that! Am I being naive to think that getting equal pay is remotely realistic? If not, I could do with advice on how to approach it and fight the case, without having to waste time going out and getting another offer, ideally.

One more piece of info: the company is a famous brand, whose reputation would be damaged by any whiff of discrimination. But threatening them is not really something I want to do either! I do love working there, but the pay structure is a mess.

Do jobs in your company have levels or grades?
Do they use a job evaluation method to determine how to rank a job?

A way to determine if they are broadly similar is to look at both job descriptions and the person spec. See what experience and qualifications are required for the job.

Are they the same
Do you have similar levels of responsibility in terms of management? Direct reports?

Are the skills and experience he needs to do his job, the same as yours?

A final point, is that, it's a case of the job and not the person if done properly. So even if you could do his job with your skill set, do you need those skills and experience/qualifications to do your job?

I imagine you work in the private sector, because they tend to have more blurred lines like this.

I work in HR and know a fair bit about this. If you want to PM me feel free, as I don't always catch up on replies in the threads.

If you answer the questions then I can adviseyou further. It's not just about asking for more money. You need to be able to demonstrate that those two roles are broadly similar. They won't want an equal pay claim.
I hate women being shafted like this. If you have a UNION at work, you can also raise it with them.

Solomon that's reassuring. I am prepared to be bolshy if need be!

happy my company does have a union but I am not a member (at least, not that I know of...). Would they still help? Never been in a union so am very ignorant about how it works and when they can help.

Briony we do have job descriptions, and I'm sure I could get my hands on his, but my guess is that they are both pretty vague. Still, any ammo might help.

Stark I agree, it does sound like you need that agreement in writing. Supposedly verbal agreements are valid too but damn hard to prove!

my company does have a union but I am not a member (at least, not that I know of...). Would they still help? Never been in a union so am very ignorant about how it works and when they can help.

Highly unlikely they would help a non-member. Wouldn't be fair to those that pay their subs month in month out.

Salaries do not increase due to loyalty. Exactly the opposite in fact, as each time you move jobs you get pay rise.

I know how you mean - I was turned down for a promotion in favour of a guy whom I was told had "Much more experienced." I pointed out that I actually trained him when he started and mumbled something about sexism in that particular workplace (an airline - and yes, it was/probably still is a problem) and I had an immediate pay rise. (Along with a non-disclosure agreement)

In some companies, sharing salary information is discouraged so would either you or he get into trouble for knowing his salary?

Yeah it's discouraged because it leads to people (mainly women) finding out they are being treated unfairly and empowering them to go negotiate harder!

Sorry I missed some of the later ones of these

alfa should how long we've both been in the company make a difference? He has been there longer overall, but in the UK office less. Though as marmalade says, loyalty is not rewarded!

Sandy no official levels as such (it's a very disorganised company!) though we are starting to put them in. We'd both be put in the same range, though I still find the differential unfair. I'll PM you with more details.

www.equalpayportal.co.uk/for-workers/

You may find the above link helpful in the meantime.

I just thought of a couple of things.

Prior to the restructure, were you doing the same job as your male colleague?

Were you on the same salary?

Were you just slotted into your new job or was it a competitive?

Did you and others get a consultation paper with an explanation for the restructure?

Can you do your colleagues job? If so, I would question why that post wasn't ringfenced for the both of you and the post holder wasn't selected competitively.

Were there any redundancies in the restructure?

To bring a claim, your employer has to demonstrate that the other role is more demanding / requires more experience/requires qualifications that you don't have or some other material fact.

If they can't demonstrate that, then they will come unstuck. Further more in the absence of evidence, tribunals have used an independent job evaluator to determine if the work is equal.

Unfortunately the costs of bringing a tribunal case are pretty prohibitive.

There are alternatives to an employment tribunal like ACAS mediation or your employer's grievance process. In fact you aren't allowed to go to an employment tribunal unless you have exhausted the alternatives. Lots of people to represent themselves with the help of citizen's advice bureau. There are no win no fee lawyers as well. If you are a member of a union they may help you with legal representation.

Generally if you are taking your employer to court then the working relationship is dead in the water. You are usually suing for compensation.

I don't think it's a gender equality, it's more of he negotiated a deal with his pay and tbh why would a business pay more when op hasn't asked

I hope it doesn't get as far as tribunal! Tbh if they really won't budge I would just be looking for another job.

Eve I agree with you - don't ask don't get. Which is why I wanted advice on the negotiations.

BUT - I do believe this is one of the main (not only) reasons the gender pay gap exists, because men are more likely to negotiate, more likely to threaten to leave, etc etc. It would be nice if companies rewarded actual value to the company rather than who shouts loudest, but hey ho!

Sandy thanks again for your help - I'll PM you with details as worried about outing myself/the company

Doesn't sound like sexism to me and think that this weakens the argument if used.

Being male and completely crap at negotiation i can say from personal experience that how hard and well you work rarely has an impact on fair pay. It's a business, why pay you more when you'll settle for less. Sorry, wish it was otherwise.

Might be worth joining the union while you gather your facts as well....

I am going to look into joining the union.

Saw this article today and thought it was interesting and relevant!
Women seek pay rises as much as men - with less success
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37278170

Thanks malcom and He I have asked for more confirmation to ease my mind. Here's hoping...

Can you be absolutely sure that he's not getting paid more because he's better at the job than you?

In most jobs I've had, two people starting work in the same role on the same pay wouldn't necessarily be on the same pay a few years later. Pay rises are usually performance linked.

THe main question I have here is what "Which is why men are often paid more, because they are more willing to [negotiate]!" based on.

It may be because he's better at negotiating: are all men?

He may be performing better at his job.