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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think all buy to let people are just in it to get someone else to work to pay off their mortgage?

683 replies

madhurjazz · 03/09/2016 07:13

I wish people would say it as it is. Buy to let in my mind is just about getting someone else that can't afford a deposit / without a stable job to do all the hard work to pay off the mortgage of someone else. It does feel like a massive step backwards in equality.

Very few actually want to rent, the vast majority are stuck doing so as speculation keeps pushing ownership out of reach.

OP posts:
Tigermehhhhm · 04/09/2016 20:28

I haven't read all the replies but I thought I would give you my side of the story. We bought a flat, lived in it for about 3 months then DH mother died and we had to move back to his family home to bring up his youngest brother. At no time did we have enough money to sell the flat (or pay two mortgages whilst the flat was being sold) so we rented it out and swapped to a buy to let mortgage. Sometimes it helps to see the other side of the argument...

Puzzledandpissedoff · 04/09/2016 20:29

Charley I was mistaken in forgetting about the help to buy thing, so yes - in cases like that it seems there is indeed some "propping up" going on

Given the potential of things like this to inflate house prices, I'm still not convinced it's the right thing to do, though

witchkat72 · 04/09/2016 20:31

My dh bought his house under the buy to let for the only reason being that he couldnt afford mortgage repayments if it was under normal mortgage. We live in it and always have, we are not in any finacial position to even move and rent it out.

Gecko123 · 04/09/2016 20:34

What a stupid comment, of course YABU with such a generalisation. Bitter much??

53rdAndBird · 04/09/2016 20:35

This concept of dodgy letting agencies with thousands of cheap properties on their books that they care nothing about, never visit nor inform the LL or anything needing done is nothing I've come across since being at university nearly 30yrs ago.

I'm glad you found a good one, but there are PLENTY of bad ones out there. I've rented with agencies who:

  • charged illegal fees
  • charged tenants multiple times over for damage (as in, cigarette burn on carpet, they charged the tenant but didn't replace the carpet - if another tenant caused separate damage, they'd charge them for the full price of the carpet again - this was before mandatory deposit protection schemes)
  • didn't do inspections
  • didnt provide inventories
  • didn't pass my payment on to the landlord, then told the landlord I hadn't paid (this was ineptitude rather than malice but ffs, still)
  • did not pass on complaints to landlord
  • when 'complaints' were 'floor is actually rotting away', which it was in one case - didn't fix it, didn't pass on message to landlord, faffed around for months, and then when I finally prised the landlords details out of them to tell him myself, told the landlord that I had caused it due to 'misusing the dishwasher'
  • lost the keys the landlord gave them, lost the second set of keys I got cut for them at my own expense, and then told me that since they didn't have keys I'd have to stay in all day for inspection because they couldn't guarantee when they'd arrive between 8-5 - and they'd charge me £25 if they turned up and I wasn't there

Seriously, it's an appallingly unregulated sector with a lot of terrible, terrible letting agents around.

user1471439240 · 04/09/2016 20:39

The reason for maintaining house prices was financial around the 07 crash.
The banks ( govt bailed ) are now solvent at a 40 percent price haircut.
The current will to maintain prices has been political, to buy votes.
A tipping point is being reached where less and less own property. Indeed many home owning parents of generation rent are seeing this is a zero sum game.
The housing crisis will be solved through the ballot box.

MJ14 · 04/09/2016 20:40

We rent from 'friends' they've allowed us to have pets and decorate which others wouldn't but we've been here 3 years so far and they've made £15,000 off us! 😔
It's an excellent way to make money.
We plan to buy a house in the next 2 years and then when our son is older then we'll get a buy to let mortgage for our son and he will pay into the mortgage but we'll give it him back after 3 years and he can use it as a deposit for a house.

Propertyquandry · 04/09/2016 20:45

That all sounds awful but can I ask? How can they charge the tenant got replacing the carpet then not replace it? Do you mean at the end of a tenancy? The deposit will be held in the tenants deposit scheme of whatever it is, surely? We were provided with proof if this when we picked up the keys as are out tenants. With this comes the gas certificate and a PAT certificate from an electrician so they know the wiring and dishwasher are safe. If there's no dispute, deposit is returned immediately but if as a LL you want to withhold some of it and the tenant hasn't put in writing that they agree to that then the deposit company retain the deposit for 3mths. As a LL if I wanted to replace that stained carpet and my tenants had disputed it, I'd need to change the carpet and provide receipt evidence to the Scheme then they'd write to my tenants and await s response. No response and they reimburse me but if the tenant disputed things, the deposit scheme would rule based on evidence such as dated photos and the extensive inventory (with lots of pics) that is done prior to them moving in.

This is the law, is it not?

SauvignonPlonker · 04/09/2016 20:47

53 explained it was before the days of deposit schemes.

Propertyquandry · 04/09/2016 20:51

As for not providing inventories, I'm baffled by this. When we moved here and rented, before we signed, we were given a list of things that would be provided on taking possession. Things such as 3 sets of keys, garage remote, inventory etc. The inventory was about 50 pages long with lots and lots of pictures. It took me a whole evening to go around double checking it. I annotated a couple of bits I didn't agree with such as there being a large crack in a tiled floor deemed good condition. I think I had 7days to return it. They photocopied it and returned a copy to me fit my records when we leave.

Surely if no inventory is provided the LL is unable to reclaim any of your deposit from the scheme because he or she cannot prove a better condition existed when you moved in.

Propertyquandry · 04/09/2016 20:54

Oh ok, I missed that bit. Surely deposit schemes have ended that abuse?

As I say, I've only come across those sorts of agencies as a student. We have 3 agents here and 5 or 6 back where our rented out house is but they're all estate agents who sell houses and have a smaller lettings desk.

Emma4991 · 04/09/2016 20:56

I know people who rent because they choose to. They have enough money for a deposit but choose to rent because it suits them. (I think they're mad but they have their (stupid) reasons

Propertyquandry · 04/09/2016 20:59

Emma, I doubt any of our tenants would struggle with a mortgage. 2 have rented ours whilst working on their own and at least 2 more have rented ours as they've relocated to the area and want to get a better feel before buying there. Likewise, when we first moved here, we rented that house out and rented ourselves down here.

53rdAndBird · 04/09/2016 20:59

Deposit protection schemes have greatly improved things, but there are still a lot of really, really awful practices and agents out there. I've rented from plenty of them.

Propertyquandry · 04/09/2016 21:00

So not at all 'stupid' reasons

Notmuchtosay1 · 04/09/2016 21:00

I have a house I rent out. My father passed away and I inherited his flat. I sold it as it was a long way from my house. The best investment was a house more locally, I rent it out. It's an investment. I wouldn't have got the same return on anything else.
The house I live in is my partners. So my rental doesn't pay my mortgage. There is a high demand for rental property where we live. I expect it's the same everywhere.

Notmuchtosay1 · 04/09/2016 21:02

Also the people in my house earn way more than my partner and myself. I am sure if they really wanted to buy they probably could.

Propertyquandry · 04/09/2016 21:03

53rd, I would be more than happy with tighter regulations. I dont think they'd unduly affect me as I (genuinely) can't see any ways in which I'm not a good landlord. Unless just being a LL intrinsically means I'm not good.

Charley50 · 04/09/2016 21:03

Property quandary - the people who rent from you - who are having their own houses refurbished or are buying in your area - are not what this thread is about.

Propertyquandry · 04/09/2016 21:08

But the thread is saying (or at least the first few pages were) that having one home and renting out another was immoral as it artificially inflated prices and as I was told early on, me renting out the house we lived in is adversely affecting the levels of housing benefit paid. And that my tenants could well be using HB and I'd never know despite the proof of income form required.

Lots and lots of other posters also posted how they moved away and now rent out their former homes yet apparently according to Shelter and many on this thread, accidental LLs like us are the worst LL.

Propertyquandry · 04/09/2016 21:12

I think the dodgy LL who doesn't give a crap can easily be gotten rid off by tighter regulations. Perhaps another scheme like the deposit scheme where tenants can continue to pay their rent to rather than to the agent or LL if the house it not kept to a reasonable standard including heating and boiler regularly serviced and working. No payment of damp exists and isnt dealt with etc.

Propertyquandry · 04/09/2016 21:12

Rid of
if damp

SauvignonPlonker · 04/09/2016 21:16

The current government (and most previous ones) have generally resisted greater regulation of the rental market. Call me a cynic, but aren't a very high proportion of Conservative MP's 2nd homeowners? Hmm

yougottheshining · 04/09/2016 21:18

Propertquandry do you have any concept of lived experience outside your own? I wonder what your response to reading news about Aleppo is for example? Do you just say to yourself 'well there are no bombs falling here so therefore it can't be happening'? Landlords collectively cost the country £10 billion in housing benefit every year with four million of those who claim it being in work. One third of private rents are substandard. Unregulated agencies cause problems for both landlords and tenants in the form of poor management, disregard of repairing obligations and an opaque fee charging system which is often little more than a licence to print money. The shift of provision of rented housing from state to private sector is proving to be a costly disaster. And you titting on about nail polish misses the point in quite spectacular fashion.

NNChangeAgain · 04/09/2016 21:21

We rent from 'friends' they've allowed us to have pets and decorate which others wouldn't but we've been here 3 years so far and they've made £15,000 off us

When it comes to amateur LL, I suspect sharing that kind of financial information with your tenants is up there as one of the more risky mistakes.

How on earth do you know that!?!

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