To talk to my friend about her toddler's behaviour?

[Writerwannabe83]

My title may initially warrant a MYOB but I'm so worried for my friend's children as a result of her youngest child's behaviour and I'm worried about how things may escalate.

She has a very, very quiet, perfectly behaved 6 year old daughter and a 3 year old son whose behaviour is very challenging.

I've always known he's been a bit of a live wire from a young age but a few months ago my friend broke down in tears and told me the true depth of the problem, how she struggles to cope, how he kicks, bites, smacks her and his sister, how nobody else in the family wants to spend time with him because of his violence and how she doesn't think she likes him although she does love him.

I was at her house a few days ago and he started punching his mom, screaming at her, slapping her, pinching the skin on her arms and she was nearly in tears with pain and embarrassment I think. At one point she smacked him back (across his forearm) and then she shut him out in the hallway where he started screaming hysterically and kicking the door.

This friend went to visit my sister the next day who told me that the 3 year old was being really naughty, jumping on the furniture, throwing toys around, not doing as he was told and also being violent again, in much the same way I described above, but towards his sister as well as his mom. My friend didn't stop her son hurting his sister who apparently was nearly in tears. My friend has said that she knows she should stop him being aggressive towards his sister but that telling her son off would just make things worse. Our friend was also on the brink of tears whilst all this was going on, she's just broken by it all.

He is perfectly well behaved for his childminder and when he goes to nursery.

She frequently has to walk away from him and lock herself in another room and put her hands over her ears just to get away from him (her words). I know in the past she has put him in a potentially dangerous situation because she just had to get away from him.

I feel like her family unit is going to implode, I can see that my friend is on the brink and that she can't cope. About a year ago she told me she had been planning on reaching out to her HV team for help but her husband had said no as he didn't want people thinking they were bad parents. FWIW she has no support from her husband as he's only at home on the weekend.

I know she needs help and I really do want to help her and make her see that things can't go on like this. What if she snaps and really hurts her son out of frustration? I'm worried about how all this will impact on the relationship between her and her daughter as from her daughters perspective I imagine she's wondering why her brother is allowed to hurt her and why her mom doesn't stop it.

It's all such a mess.

Turning a blind eye is not an option. We've been best friends for almost 20 years, we were bridesmaids at each other's wedding, we've been through so much together and I can't just leave her to face all this alone.

How do I help her with this?

The more I write and read responses the more worried I am about them all

Hmm, I'd be letting her know that you are there for her if she needs somewhere to turn to if I were you.

Parenting while in an abusive relationship is SO difficult, even if he's away a lot. The strain is monumental because the one in your friend's position is carrying (his) shame and secrets and having her sense of self demolished. Kudos to you and the other friends that you haven't distanced, despite his best efforts

Sound awful, there could be a lot of reasons why the children could be acting in the ways you are describing.
But no matter what the mum needs help and support.
If the mum refuses to seek out help I would be seeking out professional advice yourself.
Do you have a hv? Maybe you could have a word with them and see what they advise.

I take back my suggestion that she needs a parenting course.
These children are being abused and their behaviour is the result.
It's that simple.
As her friend, you have a duty to point that out to her.

The last three years have been really hectic for the children (for financial reasons) and I think the constant upheaval and change alongside their dad dipping in and out of their lives hasn't helped much.

She would be so much better off without him, we can all see it, I just wish she could.

I'm going to suggest we contact the Health Visitor again, I just hope she's still open to the idea. It will be so hard though to parent the 'right' way when her husband probably won't be on board. My friend said that her son is also violent towards his dad when he's home too.

My friend's mom used to help her out with childcare but she's mid 60s and has arthritis so she's had to stop looking after him whilst my friend is at work because she just can't control him. He's aggressive towards her too.

He can transform from a loving and affectionate little boy to a violent animal in seconds.

I think ju friend has become so engulfed in it all that she can't see how damaging it is

I have a well behaved older child and a younger one who is more like the boy you describe, although not quite to that degree. It is really hard when people judge you, it's got to the point I rarely take my youngest out now if there are other children there because I can't predict his reactions and whether he will hurt other children. (If he hurts anyone, regardless if who it is, we do of course stop that immediately). However if someone suggested a parenting course to me, I would be a bit offended I have to say. I have managed to bring up one well behaved child, I know the drill, but sometimes you're presented with a child who doesn't play by those rules and a generic parenting class is unlikely to help.

I sought help from my local authority and they assessed him and as a result, he goes to a specialised pre school which has smaller groups and more importantly, an expert in this type of behaviour. We discuss together his frustrations and try different techniques to try and address them.

Personally, I don't think you should just recommend a parenting class to her because it makes it sound like you think she doesn't know how to parent, but def suggest the HV or paediatrician with a view to getting specific advice on how to handle his issues. It is a horrible place to be when you are so down about it anyway, and also feel that everyone is judging you. I feel really bad for her.

I agree with PP, she needs to speak to her HV/gp to see if there's anything they can do to help her.
Her husband sounds awful. The children's behaviour (both dd and ds) worry me. the whole thing sort of screams abuse to me, her dd is quiet and well behaved because she's scared to do anything else, 6 y/o are meant to be noisy and naughty sometimes, and it's like her DS is emulating dad's behaviour, he sees daddy hitting and nipping and shouting at mummy so he'll do the same. Its all very worrying...
Don't push your friend to talk about, it is an extremely difficult conversation to have for both parties, yourself and your friend. You sound like an amazing friend, just make sure she knows that you're always there for her and be supportive, she may open up of her own accord. for you both

I don't think at all that my friend's DH is physically abusive to her but he's very controlling and does have a mean streak.

When they first met none of us could understand what she saw in him, he always come across as being really cocky and arrogant, almost fake. When they announced they were engaged not one of us out of our friendship group believed for a second a wedding would go ahead because they just didn't seem like a match at all, we thought it was just him making an empty gesture of some sorts but we were wrong.

He's just so smug and self assured. He makes me feel so angry. My sister can't stand him. It's really awkward for us all but like I said, we have to tolerate him for her sake.

I wouldn't trust him at all in terms of what he's up to whilst being away Mon-Thurs and I doubt my friend does either.

My friend blames herself for how quiet her daughter is, she thinks it's because she didn't hold her enough as a baby (irrational thinking, I know). The little girl isn't affectionate at all towards either of her parents whereas the son, when he's not having a meltdown is so, so loving towards his mom, he's always hugging and kissing her. The children really are worlds apart.

No I wasn't necessarily thinking physical abuse either, but all the other types compounded: emotional, psychological, sexual and financial. With everything you say, he sounds like a narcissist (they are quite empty and fake when you scratch the surface). People ensnared by one of these really do breakdown bit by bit, yet narcissists are often not physically abusive,

You seem a lovely friend and I'd highly recommend you read Lundy Bancroft's online articles and / or book, 'Why does he do that?'. The insights are incredible and might help your support of her, which you so clearly want to give.

The thing is she's so lovely and kind hearted, she will never say s bad word about anyone and always tries to see the good in people which is probably half the problem in this situation.

I think it near kills her parents to see her being treated so badly. Everyone on the outside can see what he's like but she can't - or she does but is burying her head in the sand.

At one point she was considering whether her son had some kind of behaviour disorder (ADHD, autism etc) but the fact he picks and chooses who he is aggressive towards disproves that theory.

I just don't think she has the energy to handle it.

She works all the hours she can to try and address the financial problems they have because of her DH's spending whilst dealing with everything house and child related whilst her DH ducks out of family life for 5 days a week.

She deserves so much better

I'm wondering if your friend's helplessness in the face of her son's aggression is because on some level she recognises he is mimicking his dad, as a pp said. If she doesn't stand up to her DH when he is unpleasant to her then it's also unlikely she feels able to set boundaries with her son. Also she might well be afraid her son will turn into a copy of his father, and be ashamed and frightened and guilty - if she is experiencing emotional abuse it wouldn't be uncommon for her to naturally blame herself for not coping.

Sounds awful for all three of them.

At one point she was considering whether her son had some kind of behaviour disorder (ADHD, autism etc) but the fact he picks and chooses who he is aggressive towards disproves that theory

Don't be too sure, he may not be picking and choosing, he may be reacting to specific triggers, he may be able to hold it in with some instances yet just explode at others.

Please try to get her to push for assessment for both children, both need professional intervention, not guesswork.
She also needs a lot of support, she's lucky to have a good friend in you, try not to push her too hard, a gentle suggestion rather than an instruction every time.

Does the son's behaviour improve or regress when the husband's around. Is the daughter happier or more detached when dad's around? If so it might be Mum who's the abuser & son's copying what he sees Mum do to daughter. Her comment about resenting daughter sent chills, because that's exactly what my mum said about me in public (while beating the crap out of me in private - things got so bad dad would work back to back day/night shifts so he wasn't home).

FWIW I think the root of the problem is the father of the children - he is clearly not physically or emotionally available to them. We all know children need unconditional love to thrive and grow into well adjusted adults, but these 2 children are both in their different ways reacting to a situation between the parents. The girl has gone into her shell and the boy is acting out (not unusual for this difference between the genders)

Thing is none of you know what's happening behind closed doors every weekend. You know the H is controlling and belittles his wife in front of others, so maybe she is afraid of him, or at the very least wary of him, tiptoeing around him maybe? I don't know but it's a possibility, but whatever the dynamic is between the 2 of them the children are suffering. Incidentally he's not self assured - quite the reverse - he's probably very insecure - men who are secure and self assured don't need to be controlling. My guess is he puts up a front because he has low self esteem and it makes him feel better if he puts his wife down. Can you maybe talk to your friend about her r/ship rather than the little boy's behaviour. It's not easy to admit if you are afraid of your partner or worried about upsetting him, but she may with a little gentle coaxing start to talk about the r/ship.

Having said all that I agree with someone who said you can't rule out some kind of behavioral disorder - not sure the HV will be much use to be honest. It sounds like the mom is afraid of the child to some extent and that makes a child feel unsafe This friend definitely needs to open up to you OP and talk about what's on her mind. Be brave - go for it - stroke her back - tell her you aren't prying, but you care about her and you know things aren't right for her.................

Well there are a few possibilities of what is happening to these children, none of which are good, but how can the OP get any help for them?

If there is abuse and that seems to be probable, in this case, I am very sorry for people who are with an abusive partner, but I am a hundred times more sorry for the children, who have no choice whatsoever and these children are obviously being damaged.